U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-25-2013, 03:49 PM
 
354 posts, read 245,886 times
Reputation: 105

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
Allah is the same god as the god of Abraham, hence Judaism, Christianity and Islam being known as "The Abrahamic Religions."

Allah is the same god as the god of the Old Testament.

"Allah" is not the name of a god; it is simply a generic word for god. Christians in parts of the Middle East use the term "allah" when praying.
Yes, I'm aware of all these things. I might however argue the god of Christianity (because of the Jesus/Trinitarian insertion) is not exactly the same god as the god of the Jews and Muslims, even though it does share historical roots.

Were you attempting to define this god, or just wishing to inform me its a similar god, with shared historical roots, that the Jews and Christians also worship?


FYI; I believe the proper name this god goes by is often transcribed as Yahweh (YHWH). Some also use Jehovah. Interestingly, wiki says that Allah IS the proper name of the Muslim god. I suppose it might be like the Christians using the capitalized form the word god (God) to denote their god. Man, this stuff is confusing. It's no wonder I consider the word god so ambiguous.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2013, 03:50 AM
 
39,112 posts, read 10,849,315 times
Reputation: 5088
I should say that this thread is not so much about the existence of god (the rule is lower case) because that, even when applied to a realo trulo deity rather than to a particular interest, cause, or rejection of religious claims for the purposes of somehow claiming that atheism is a religion or turning into one (1) is a concept that does begin to look like the same one whether abrahamic or Hinduic, but it is about religion - the different claims about the nature, desires, commands, requirements plans and modus operandi of the god in question.

While the various protagonists of their religions can slip into the 'your god and my god' mode of speech, this is a conventional shorthand expression (like 'There is no God') for a more complex idea 'It is the same god, but you worship it incorrectly and it will punish you for it, unless you change from your religious rituals, language and funny hats to mine.'

Thus the 'All the same god' is a red herring. It is a red herring used in debate with atheists as a response to the 'Which God?' gambit. It says that there is really only one God.

But this only kicks the tin of Pascal's wager down the road. If it is all the same God, the question is, which religion then, because if you don't get the religion (or even the denomination) right, you will (if you believe in Hell at all) go to the flames if have it wrong.

So 'It is all the same God' is an irrelevance. It is the brand of god associated with a particular religion that is the point of disagreement and the reason why a lot of people are giving it up as looney and going agnostic or irreligious theist.

(1) what on earth this is supposed to prove I have no idea but this refutation was excellent

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTaTHEIST View Post
Being as I'm one of those squawking, contrary atheists, I'll bite on this.
...

Edit: As you are probably aware, an atheist is someone who is simply not a theist (hence my forum name). I believe it would be very difficult indeed to build a religion upon something that someone is not (a god believer).

Someone interested in the religion of atheism asks: What are the tenets of your religion?
Atheist: Well, we only have one; we are not theists.
Interested person: Doesn't seem like much to base a religion upon.
Atheist: You are quite correct.
(spelling correction free of charge )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,742,175 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTaTHEIST View Post
Yes, I'm aware of all these things. I might however argue the god of Christianity (because of the Jesus/Trinitarian insertion) is not exactly the same god as the god of the Jews and Muslims, even though it does share historical roots.

Were you attempting to define this god, or just wishing to inform me its a similar god, with shared historical roots, that the Jews and Christians also worship?


FYI; I believe the proper name this god goes by is often transcribed as Yahweh (YHWH). Some also use Jehovah. Interestingly, wiki says that Allah IS the proper name of the Muslim god. I suppose it might be like the Christians using the capitalized form the word god (God) to denote their god. Man, this stuff is confusing. It's no wonder I consider the word god so ambiguous.
Actually, Muhammad's father was named "allah's servant" much before Muhammad invented the religion of Islam. Allah did mean "the god" as Baal/Bel meant "Lord"... Yahoo(YWH) was a brother of Bel and son of El, the Creator and Universal Ruler in ancient Canaanite civilization... Bel was simply the Prince that was put in charge of the Earth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 02:42 PM
 
354 posts, read 245,886 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I should say that this thread is not so much about the existence of god (the rule is lower case) because that, even when applied to a realo trulo deity rather than to a particular interest, cause, or rejection of religious claims for the purposes of somehow claiming that atheism is a religion or turning into one (1) is a concept that does begin to look like the same one whether abrahamic or Hinduic, but it is about religion - the different claims about the nature, desires, commands, requirements plans and modus operandi of the god in question.

While the various protagonists of their religions can slip into the 'your god and my god' mode of speech, this is a conventional shorthand expression (like 'There is no God') for a more complex idea 'It is the same god, but you worship it incorrectly and it will punish you for it, unless you change from your religious rituals, language and funny hats to mine.'

Thus the 'All the same god' is a red herring. It is a red herring used in debate with atheists as a response to the 'Which God?' gambit. It says that there is really only one God.

But this only kicks the tin of Pascal's wager down the road. If it is all the same God, the question is, which religion then, because if you don't get the religion (or even the denomination) right, you will (if you believe in Hell at all) go to the flames if have it wrong.

So 'It is all the same God' is an irrelevance. It is the brand of god associated with a particular religion that is the point of disagreement and the reason why a lot of people are giving it up as looney and going agnostic or irreligious theist.
Very well said. And yes, I agree this style of argumentation is a red herring.


Quote:
(1) what on earth this is supposed to prove I have no idea but this refutation
was excellent
Why thank you

Quote:
(spelling correction free of charge )
This is always appreciated and it keeps me on my toes. I often replace words with other words that sound the same to my ear, or worse, skip words altogether. Damn tenants! Always moving in and messing with one's tenets

Perhaps if I ever get around to finishing my epic novel you'd be interested in editing, as I'm sure it will need a ton of?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 03:03 PM
 
354 posts, read 245,886 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
Actually, Muhammad's father was named "allah's servant" much before Muhammad
invented the religion of Islam. Allah did mean "the god" as Baal/Bel meant
"Lord"... Yahoo(YWH) was a brother of Bel and son of El, the Creator and
Universal Ruler in ancient Canaanite civilization... Bel was simply the Prince
that was put in charge of the Earth.
Assuming you're a adherent of Islam, wouldn't be more accurate to say "Allah invented/created the religion of Islam" and Muhammad was simply the vehicle that brought it to humans? From my standpoint I'd say yes, the religion of Islam and even the god itself was an anthropogenic creation. But I'm quite sure the adherents of Islam do not see it that way.

Secondly, are you saying all these different names apply to the same god? If so, at least one (Bel) seems to be a different, lesser god character.

I'm no expert on Islam, so I'm taking this from wiki again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by Meccans as a reference to the
creator-god, possibly the supreme deity. Allah was not considered the sole divinity; however, Allah was considered the creator of the world and the giver of rain. The notion of the term may have been vague in the Meccan religion. Allah was associated with companions, whom pre-Islamic Arabs considered as subordinate deities. Meccans held that a kind of kinship existed between Allah and the jinn. Allah was
thought to have had sons and that the local deities of al-‘Uzzá, Manāt and al-Lāt were His daughters. The Meccans possibly associated angels with Allah. Allah was
invoked in times of distress. Muhammad's father's name was ‘Abd Allāh meaning 'the slave of Allāh'
Judging by what is written here, I'd say what was brought by Muhammad (and the people of his time) was monotheism. I'd wager Judaism has a similar history of once being a polytheistic religion, which through time and probably a few charismatic individuals became a monotheistic religion (I believe it might be the first monotheistic religion, or at least the first well-known one).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top