Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Atheists do not deny the existence of the ancient Jewish civilization in the Levant or the historicity of some of the events described in the old testament which are widely confirmed by multiple records from neighbouring civilizations and the archeological record, for example the Assyrian conquest of Israel. On the other hand, other events like the exodus seem to have both no archeological evidence for them despite centuries of looking, and in fact this story has been contradicted by all the non-Jewish sources such as the Egyptians records. So if this is evidence of a king named Soloman of Israel that is certainly a possible thing, but it does not mean that the Bible's account of this character is accurate. It also does not mean the accounts of God are true either. Just because we know there was a city called Troy in Turkey does not mean a supernatural being named Apollo visited there and cursed a woman named Cassandra with the ability to see the future, nor does the historical existence of ancient Athens mean that a goddess name Athena held court there. As well, if we find Gilgamesh of Ur was real king in the city of Ur, it does not mean we must also believe that he traveled to the underworld and met with the one man who built an arc to survive a flood and was granted the gift of immortal life by the gods, or that this man gave him a plant that could heal all sickness and he lost it. In the same way, this does not mean I have to believe that God is anything more than a similar mythological figure to those I just mentioned from Israel's neighbouring cultures.
Indeed. There is no doubt that there was an Israelite nation -state after 1,100 BC and David and Solomon were real kings.
It is open to very serious doubt that there was what we would regard as a Jewish people before then (1), that there was an Exodus and conquest or even that the David -Solomon kingdom was anything like as big as claimed, and that it was under Omri that the major building work was carried out.
The earliest Bible text found dated to 600 BC and is a silver scroll of Jewish law codes - Numbers, not the commandments, by the way. This indicates that it was the establishment of an Israelite nation with one God, one Law and one identity that was the purpose of holy scripture at that time. It was (I believe) developed out of a need for a cultural identity based on their tribal god and rejecting the gods and customs of the other states (Edom, Moab and Ammon) around them and with whom they were in conflict, and it was remarkably successful.
There is no doubt that it was the most successful formula for perpetuation of a cultural identity ever invented. But it does not mean that their god is real or that the story of the Jewish peoples as found in the OT is historically reliable.
(1) The diplomatic exchange (Long after the Hyksos, incidentally) between Akhetaten and the rulers of Canaan show that Jerusalem had a local Caananite governor
Firstly there is a lot of "ifs" and "maybes" and "perhaps" in the article so there is a long way to go to establish anything here.
Secondly what we are talking about here is an object. Most fiction is set against real backgrounds. Simply finding a person, place or thing mentioned in such a text in no way validates the reality of all the things in that text.
If you managed to prove that every single place and object mentioned in the Bible actually existed... every single last one... that still does not for one minute mean the events and claims of the Bible were true and real.
Take the Jason Bourne books which the movies are based on. Just about every building in those books exist. As do the politicians mentioned, the historical events mentioned, the airlines and other businesses used and mentioned. Huge swaths of things in those books exist and are real.
Does that mean Jason Bourne is real and the events in those books happened? No, not at all.
"The biblical story of David is indeed mythic in nature.. He spent most of his career as a brigand-king, and, where he ruled, he did so by employing murder and mayhem.. "
– Baruch Halpern, David's Secret Demons, p 479/80.
"Damascus reached its zenith during the reign of Hazael ... Transjordanian regions were overrun ... Hazael was able to cross Israelite territory to progress down the coastal plain to take Gath in Philistia ...
In fact, Hazael appears to have established an empire or sphere of influence not unlike that ascribed to David."
– B.S.J. Isserlin, The Israelites, p86.
"Around 835 and 800 BC the kingdom of Aram-Damascus controlled the upper Jordan valley and significant areas in northeastern Israel – and devastated major Israelite administrative centres in the fertile Jezreel valley as well."
– Finkelstein, Silberman,The Bible Unearthed, p202.
"The first millennium of Jewish history as presented in the Bible has no empirical foundation whatsoever." – Cantor, The Sacred Chain, p 51.
'About the year 1000 B.C. there was nothing distinctive about the Jews ethnically, linguistically, politically or economically.'
N. Cantor (The Sacred Chain, p52)
"The Bible writers projected backwards into time the kind of political rivalry that was happening in their own day [6th c BC] in order to explain that rivalry and perhaps justify the Israelite position over current border disputes."
Magnus Magnusson (The Archaeology of the Bible Lands - BC, p76)
"It was perhaps at this time [the Babylonian exile] that some of the traditions associated with Solomon were also invented ... In the biblical account the reign of Solomon is presented as a golden age of peace. His name in Hebrew – Shlomo – is written slm, the same three letters as also would be used to spell shalom or peace. It is at least possible that he is a story figure – an idealized version of an historical personage." – Matthew Sturgis, p163. It Ain't Necessarily So
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.