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Old 06-16-2013, 05:47 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,871,081 times
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DEFINITION OF RELIGION

Quote:
Religion originates in an attempt to represent and order beliefs, feelings, imaginings and actions that arise in response to direct experience of the sacred and the spiritual. As this attempt expands in its formulation and elaboration, it becomes a process that creates meaning for itself on a sustaining basis, in terms of both its originating experiences and its own continuing responses.
What's the big hangup over being a religion anyway?

Someone says "I believe/know/etc that there isn't a god" they are ordering their feelings in response to what they've seen/experienced, which sounds suspiciously like the above. They rely on what they call proof, instead of faith, but there are still grey areas (dark matter).

And that's fine. The moment you admit to that, the moment people stop trying to poke holes in one's reason (as in, "you say you're not a religion but this/that constitutes something that is not empirical"). Plus, if atheists admitted they were a religion (of sorts), they could get grants from the government to build Meeting Houses (sorry, you can't really call them temples).

Unholy Joe | bankrupt artist v.3

Also, then you be able to hand these around with impunity.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:39 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,271,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
DEFINITION OF RELIGION



What's the big hangup over being a religion anyway?

Someone says "I believe/know/etc that there isn't a god" they are ordering their feelings in response to what they've seen/experienced, which sounds suspiciously like the above. They rely on what they call proof, instead of faith, but there are still grey areas (dark matter).

And that's fine. The moment you admit to that, the moment people stop trying to poke holes in one's reason (as in, "you say you're not a religion but this/that constitutes something that is not empirical"). Plus, if atheists admitted they were a religion (of sorts), they could get grants from the government to build Meeting Houses (sorry, you can't really call them temples).

Unholy Joe | bankrupt artist v.3

Also, then you be able to hand these around with impunity.
What is the big hangup with people such as you claiming that everyone must have a religion?

Some do, some don't. Yet the religious always seem to insist that Atheists have a religion but just don't want to admit it.

Personally, I don't care what you believe, until you try and force it on me.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:22 PM
 
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Atheists come in all sizes and the idea of a good - works atheist assembly is ok, even if we have someone doing charismatic minister performances. Not my thing, though.

The beef about being called a religion is not just that it is incorrect, but is a Ploy to claim that atheism is also faith -based and the religious view is just as valid. It isn't.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Harker Heights, Tx
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I'm already Pastafarian.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:55 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
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read "Religion for Atheists" by Alain de Botton...I'd attend his idea of an atheist "religious service". Probably not the imaginings of most others, however
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:36 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,871,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
What is the big hangup with people such as you claiming that everyone must have a religion?

Some do, some don't. Yet the religious always seem to insist that Atheists have a religion but just don't want to admit it.

Personally, I don't care what you believe, until you try and force it on me.

If you knew the definition of religion (instead of what you assume religion is about) then yes it is a must.

Religion is not "believing in God."

Religion is not "joining a church."

Religion is "reconnecting."

Reconnecting to what? Yourself, other people, the world around you. When you talk to someone while buying a newspaper at a store, you are doing this. When you sit alone in your room, not even being on a web forum, you are disconnecting. Do this enough, and you become weird.

If you do not have a religion, you are by definition, not a human being. Everyone has one (yes, even that guy over there). Because everyone has a past and an outlook, and a means of connecting with other people.

What you choose to believe is up to you. But claiming to believe in nothing is a lie. You have a past, you have things you stand for, and things you won't stand for (e.g. if you get rejected all your life, you stand for not doing that to other people).


Aaron Tippin - You've Got To Stand For Something - YouTube

But it's important to know what you stand for, and go with it. So yes, I do think there should be a way for atheists to meet up, and not feel so alone.

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 06-17-2013 at 10:13 PM..
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Aiken, South Carolina, US of A
1,769 posts, read 3,876,926 times
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bulmabriefs,
You are misinformed.
Atheists only believe what can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Something proven over and over again, tested and retested, over and over
til we say yes, that is true.
Like boiling water.
Putting the water from the sink in the pot and measuring the temperature to
see what the temperature is right as the water starts to boil.
Then we do it again.
Then if you ask me what do you believe?
I will answer that water boils at 212 degrees F. or 100 C.
That is what I believe.
It is not a religion. It will never be a religion.
It is a fact.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:33 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,871,081 times
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What you just said?

That's the definition of ritual.

That's what you believe, that's fine.

But the Fahrenheit temperature is based on mercury, not water. If we said "screw mercury", and started both F and C at 0 (which makes more sense because businesses such as airlines actually worry about water freezing), Fahrenheit would instead be exactly 180F (which is also easier math, just 100/180 or 5/9). But we couldn't do that, because it's a "fact" that water boils at 212F.

Reality is subjective.

The only important thing is that these "facts" do not cut you off from the rest of humanity.
If they don't, sure go ahead.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:28 AM
 
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I hear your arguments, but it seems to me the other way around. Reality is what it is apart from what labels we apply and labels do not alter the concepts they are are applied to. Thus temperature is what it is no matter what convenient form of measurement we apply to it. Atheism is a disbelief in a god or any deity or quasi - deity and thus has no trust in the Holy Books that purport to tell us what it wants and rituals intended to propitiate it.

Fiddling the definition of religion to make it mean all sorts of other things - Organizations, Belief of some kind or 'connection' (I have seen them all) is invalid and does not persuade the atheist that they should have have some kind of ritual based on god -propitiation (with or without the god) or imitating it. Religion is not what it is and quasi - religious antics are neither appropriate or desirable.

At best they are a sort of religious nicotine -patch for those finding it hard to kick the church -going habit.

Oh, and reality is not subjective, though our perception and interpretation of it is subjective. Which is why we need checks and tests to ensure that we are not fooling ourselves and that we have reliable facts about the reality that exists apart from how we see or imagine it. It is called the scientific method and the data it provides is the reliable corpus of data which we regard as valid evidence - not the imaginings, misinterpretations and speculations that are, as you say, subjective.

This is the answer to 'How do we know what we know?' which is very often where the religion - debate comes down to - often via 'Who made everything, then?'

(p.s sorry for off -topic.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:51 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,225 posts, read 11,031,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
If you knew the definition of religion (instead of what you assume religion is about) then yes it is a must.

Religion is not "believing in God."

Religion is not "joining a church."

Religion is "reconnecting."

Reconnecting to what? Yourself, other people, the world around you. When you talk to someone while buying a newspaper at a store, you are doing this. When you sit alone in your room, not even being on a web forum, you are disconnecting. Do this enough, and you become weird.

If you do not have a religion, you are by definition, not a human being. Everyone has one (yes, even that guy over there). Because everyone has a past and an outlook, and a means of connecting with other people.

What you choose to believe is up to you. But claiming to believe in nothing is a lie. You have a past, you have things you stand for, and things you won't stand for (e.g. if you get rejected all your life, you stand for not doing that to other people).

<video clip cut>

But it's important to know
what you stand for, and go with it. So yes, I do think there should be a way for atheists to meet up, and not feel so alone.
You're saying YOU know the definition and then post this garbage???

Here's the definition: Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

Quote:
Religion:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.


3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

5. the practice of religions beliefs; ritual observance of faith.


Therefore, to be a religion, there has to be a set of beliefs that included the items in definition number one. Next, there has to be some set of practices to go with the beliefs. And last, there has to be some group of people that practice these things.

If you don't have any of these things, it certainly doesn't mean you aren't human. It simply means you're not religious.

A past, an outlook, standing for things, and connections to other people are not even close to what the dictionary defines as religion.

Where did you come up with this stuff, anyway?
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