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Old 01-15-2017, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,332,182 times
Reputation: 2610

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dillionmt View Post
Exactly. I can't understand the resistance to a universal health care system.
It's quite simple Dill. America is a country that believes that everyone should make it on their own and paying taxes to help people that are not as fortunate as some smacks of 'Socialism' and Socialism is something that Americans fear more than a re-run of Bubonic plague. It must be avoided at all costs, even if it means that some can't get treatment for illness at all and most have to pay phenomenally high prices for it. It is better to die in the gutter than have a 'socialist' system of universal health care. They resist it, not because they don't think it's a good thing...but because they see it as the first step on the road to becoming a bunch of 'Reds'.
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:27 AM
Status: "I'm travelling at the speed of light." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
1,233 posts, read 606,825 times
Reputation: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
You will also have to show where working hard, earn your keep, be responsible, and be honest has failed.

Of course, fraud gets you places to, but I am not for stealing or abusing.
It is a question of one's character, inner integrity, conscience and, I guess, pride. Personally I know I could not look at myself in the mirror while engaging in fraud or a parasitic lifestyle. I would kill myself before I'd do that.
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:36 AM
 
39,020 posts, read 10,812,637 times
Reputation: 5080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
It's quite simple Dill. America is a country that believes that everyone should make it on their own and paying taxes to help people that are not as fortunate as some smacks of 'Socialism' and Socialism is something that Americans fear more than a re-run of Bubonic plague. It must be avoided at all costs, even if it means that some can't get treatment for illness at all and most have to pay phenomenally high prices for it. It is better to die in the gutter than have a 'socialist' system of universal health care. They resist it, not because they don't think it's a good thing...but because they see it as the first step on the road to becoming a bunch of 'Reds'.

Even though the Cold war ended a decade or so ago - it really did. China and Vietnam are capitalist one party -states (supply your own political epithet - to Putin's Russia it already has been ) and N. Korea is a mad cult of modernized emperor -worship.

Whether Pope flatnoses' (1) blandishments to Cuba will lead to a restoration of Vatican authority in Castro's island remains to be seen

So the reasons for what is really wrong with America's collective head no longer exist, and the reactive steps are perpetuated because they have taken on a life of their own.

Rant deleted I'll leave that there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Norne View Post
It is a question of one's character, inner integrity, conscience and, I guess, pride. Personally I know I could not look at myself in the mirror while engaging in fraud or a parasitic lifestyle. I would kill myself before I'd do that.
It is a human choice to be honest or not, and often a humanist one, as well. In fact (in the UK at least) either politics does not preclude stuffing the pockets at the expense of the scum. What to do about that? The left at least aspires to correct the wrong, the right doesn't see anything wrong with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norne View Post
Thank you for the nice music, Transponder. Germany rarely gets enough snow for a Sibelius mood, but this is always great.

Actually, I found a piece of music from the grand opening concert at the Elbphilharmonie that is very appropriate for an Atheism forum. Ludwig van Beethoven - The Creatures of Prometheus. Prometheus famously dared to defy the will of the gods in order to bring the gift of fire and civilization to humanity. And aren't we atheists who gather here in order to discuss how best to defy the existing superstitious order, also in a way creatures of Prometheus?

Enjoy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37syou2K8Cw

If you don't care for listening to some German from the broadcast, skip to 1:30.
Yes. Very appropriate to atheism and a humanist (if Deist) Beethoven, though at that time (when he was writing turbocharged Haydn in his early days) I think he had Napoleon and his promotion on merit rather than rule of the established in mind.

I'd have picked this underrated and underplayed piece myself. If only for the mighty fugue Or, at least, an extended canonic fugato at the end.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ykmhb71gc

You know, we ought to migrate to Music where there is amongst all the Other threads, one on Classical (as it is called).
(Thank Christ and bugger off and take Carnegie hall with you, say the other posters)


(1) The Alternative Cathylick Encyclopaedia lists the last few as

Pope Flatnose,
Pope Dracula
Pope blink and you missed it
Pope Potato -head.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-15-2017 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,332,182 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Even though the Cold war ended a decade or so ago - it really did. China and Vietnam are capitalist one party -states (supply your own political epithet - to Putin's Russia it already has been ) and N. Korea is a mad cult of modernized emperor -worship.

Whether Pope flatnoses' blandishments to Cuba will lead to a restoration of Vatican authority in Castro's island remains to be seen

So the reasons for what is really wrong with America's collective head no longer exist, and the reactive steps are perpetuated because they have taken on a life of their own.
They just cannot accept that they are no longer the 'greatest country in the world'. It rankles them beyond belief...and then along comes Trump and tells them that they can be great again and ...boom! The UK is the same. The Brexit vote was won by dumbarses that think we should have the Empire back and rule the world again.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:13 AM
 
39,020 posts, read 10,812,637 times
Reputation: 5080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
They just cannot accept that they are no longer the 'greatest country in the world'. It rankles them beyond belief...and then along comes Trump and tells them that they can be great again and ...boom! The UK is the same. The Brexit vote was won by dumbarses that think we should have the Empire back and rule the world again.
At least the idea that, if we can just throw the Brussels Codebook in the channel we can Sort our problems, the main one being how to stop the Xenos coming here and (they wishfully hope) get rid of the ones we have.

The Trump phenomenon...I just recall seeing a Fox news article where they bleated about saving the America we all know and love (I won't describe it, in case you just had lunch) and which they felt was under threat from the Liberls, Obama and those who want to keep Jesusgod out of the classroom.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-15-2017 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:36 AM
 
13,457 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norne View Post
It is a question of one's character, inner integrity, conscience and, I guess, pride. Personally I know I could not look at myself in the mirror while engaging in fraud or a parasitic lifestyle. I would kill myself before I'd do that.
The data says its there and we need to watch it. the parasite will use whatever "reasoning" possible to attach itself. I am ok with being a "food source", its natural enough. In my gut, in my eyes, and so fourth.

Again, its about when is enough;enough.

when is enough? its a very tough question so we have to build the house on bed rock.

Work hard
earn your keep
take responsibility
and be honest

You notice that they are not addressing the "footer" or "the food source".
They toss in diversions and personal opinions.

They will not address how much we help already, they are only holding onto "we don't want to help". Thats a fallacy and made up. like cold war, canda has ... bla bla bla. but they will not address the validity of the initial claim. Because of one reason ... their world view collapses and that is unsettling. rightfullyso I guess.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:43 AM
 
39,020 posts, read 10,812,637 times
Reputation: 5080
"the parasite will use whatever "reasoning" possible to attach itself. I am ok with being a "food source", its natural enough. In my gut, in my eyes, and so fourth.."

Oh my. I enjoyed that.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:47 AM
 
13,457 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
They just cannot accept that they are no longer the 'greatest country in the world'. It rankles them beyond belief...and then along comes Trump and tells them that they can be great again and ...boom! The UK is the same. The Brexit vote was won by dumbarses that think we should have the Empire back and rule the world again.
your post is opinion and fallacy only ... good job on that. You might stick with the actual claim.

I claim we didn't vote 'for trump"

But, facts aside, you guys can make up whatever you want. we voted for ...

working hard,
earn your keep,
your responsible,
be honest.

You are avoiding the direct claim.

We not only care for people, do help people (a lot right now), and are willing to keep paying and helping. We are pulling for them to succeed.

so please, start off with "you guys do pay alot be we feel you should pay more because ...


PS

lamo 'we want to be the greatest", thats such a misrepresentation and plea to emotion and nationality. Lady liberals panties in a bunch.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:48 AM
 
13,457 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
"the parasite will use whatever "reasoning" possible to attach itself. I am ok with being a "food source", its natural enough. In my gut, in my eyes, and so fourth.."

Oh my. I enjoyed that.
yeah, your's is an opinion that's is not based on our facts. The fact is 'we are helping and paying."

address the facts and show me where its wrong.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:53 AM
 
16,083 posts, read 17,876,536 times
Reputation: 15867
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I have no quarrel with your analysis of the issues plaguing poor people of ANY race. But this tribalism is the root of all the evil because it presumes that there are real differences among us that matter. There are not. We are ALL God's children and we should love one another, period.
The differences may not be *real,* but we perceive them. It was as true of Italians (my dad's tribe) and the Irish (my bil's tribe) when I was growing up. The differences were cultural, language based and while they may not have been real, people still wanted to live with their own. We were not accepted by other tribes.
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