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Old 01-26-2018, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,679 posts, read 6,791,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
My problem with the tin-foilers is that so much of what they say shows how little they knew about the buildings or what happened that day.
You are so right. *Their* problem is, that they so much want to believe the convoluted bullscat that simple truth eludes them or is dismissed because it *is* so simple.
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:49 AM
 
39,320 posts, read 10,946,230 times
Reputation: 5106
Default Anyone noticed?

R/S is almost void of any serious discussion of the Bible and organized religion. Just speculative Woo presented as Fact through Faith in Whatever Pops Into Their Heads (how does that look as a Acronym? WaPITH....? It'll never catch on) and I'd say we goddless bastards (1) rule the RooSt and have the game in hand. There is an opportunity here and we should use it.

Up to now we have really been defending atheism and any threads doing tje attacking met with bleats of martyred protest. I think we can stop defending the atheist case and regard the case as Made (it has been for long time, but - of course - the people hadn't heard it from Fox News) we have always been thinking of ourselves as on the defensive and it seems to me that now we should change our perception of ourselves (and I don't mean being ashamed of being Atheists and calling ourselves "Brights" or some other Pansy name) but of having something important to say.

Time to again start the atheist threads in R/S (as I say, we effectively Own it - we should Use it) not so much attacking religion (and Christianity in particular and the horribly dangerous Right -wing creationist Fundamentalism as a prime target) as pushing atheism as better. Time to stop apologizing for it and time to start peddling it.

It's true, It's Liberating, It's Free.

There's tremendous bad Rap about atheism of course in the US. But the solution was always to change the perception. The Case has been made and we have the answers. We don't need to defend or apologize for atheism, but roll back the lack of understanding about us.

Dammit we have seen a couple of threads that made a case by simply telling Theist lies about us. The best way to disprove a Flat earth cult (and that's growing, too) is to educate people into understanding the evidence for a round earth.

And mock. Yes - no more apologizing for not believing in a flat earth and no being shamed for mocking the foolishness. And the same with the loopier aspects of religion (2) no more being put on the defensive by complaints about how rude and arrogant we are, no more gving in to bleats about personal attacks. We can brush those aside (3) and get on with Educating the people in understanding atheism, and why it is more likely true, as good if not better than religion and a far better social option than religion for the US and for all of us.

That's the next step, and not to take it might let slip what we have already gained and not take the chance that is being offered. We are too used to thinking that religion has a right to Own the religion forum? I don't think it should. "Religion" has always had room for one saying why the others are wrong. Why should there not be a practical and workable alternative to religion in general and all religions in particular?

There was a fine poster (name escapes me) who initiated critical threads and I think he got shouted down. But he had the right idea.

(1) In the Old days I was asked why I used such terms about us. The answer was if I jokingly called us Hellbound Pondslime (yes "Pondslime" was a quite popular epithet directed at atheist evolutionists) it robbed the term of any harm. It seems to have worked.

(2) one of the tactics - and tactics are legitimate -is the too often neglected used of those Theists and even Christians who are actually on our side against Organized religion, Young earth Creationism and Republican Bible -Fundamentalism. We should Woo them. Well - not Woo, but you know...

(3) "we are not being rude. If you are offended, tough
We are not arrogant. We are on all evidence right. If you think we aren't present a decent case.
It wasn't personal, but general. If you take it personally more fool you"

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-27-2018 at 01:19 AM..
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,275 posts, read 18,634,241 times
Reputation: 18780
Geez, Transponder, you are ambitious, as though you want to be the Paul of Atheism.

There is an irony at work in that if you are successful, you will destroy that which currently makes you feel special. If everyone became atheists, it would remove the stigma of rebellion from being an atheist. No rebellion, no romance. You are no longer distinguished by your atheism, you are just one of the crowd. Depending on your personality type, it might at that point, become necessary for you to break with the atheists and begin advocating something else.

The danger of this is probably pretty low, because the probability of success is low. But there could be wisdom in the cliche...Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
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Old 01-27-2018, 08:28 AM
 
39,320 posts, read 10,946,230 times
Reputation: 5106
You are right. Of course, I am merely following in the footsteps of other "pauls' who have seen where we are aiming, and city data religion (though it has been noticed as a place of significant debate) is a tiny and perhaps remote part of that.

I'm just seeing a lapse in the tough discussion of the past and we have have now Won, so to speak, and cleared the area. So, Now what do we do? There is an opporunity.

I would like to see more people speaking up and being encouraged to post. 10,000 hits a day I get. Those are people with views and experiences, and I think we'd like to hear them. They shouldn't be afraid to post or think they don't matter; they do.

And you are right about the end result for atheism if we should Succeed. And it is the finest thing about atheism and the Answer to all the accusations made about it: The final aim and ambition for atheism - is that it should disappear.

It will no more be needed than an organized campaign of anti -leprechaunism.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,275 posts, read 18,634,241 times
Reputation: 18780
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post

It will no more be needed than an organized campaign of anti -leprechaunism.
That is only because we anti-leprechaunists finally prevailed over that heresy with our withering responses to their dogma on these boards.

Quote:
The final aim and ambition for atheism - is that it should disappear.
Just like the state "withered away" under communism.

Last edited by Grandstander; 01-27-2018 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:12 PM
 
39,320 posts, read 10,946,230 times
Reputation: 5106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
That is only because we anti-leprechaunists finally prevailed over that heresy with our withering responses to their dogma on these boards.
Ah yes.. The decades- long struggle against the leprechaunists. And It WOULD keep getting mixed up with the 6 counties thing.

Quote:
Just like the state "withered away" under communism.
No, no. Like Astrology withered away under better understanding of how the universe actually works.

True, that didn't need a campaign, but the Dainiken cult did, and we may need to have to do for Flat earthism all over again.

And it's odd how UFOlogy had just evaporated, apart from a few nuts.

No, Communism was like Rome's Imperial cult trying to suppress Christanity. In the end, Christianity was bound to win over the State Cult, not least because it had more to offer (especially to the slaves). So (I think) does humanism - even..yes, even in terms of afterlife (1) if people understand it.

The Soviets tried to force it on people, and in fact is was quite successful, but only in eliminated childhood indoctrination. Former communists stated often do have very high rates of atheism. But it isn't educated atheism - just not being taught the debate. They are wide open to conversion.

The way we do it - the way we have to do it - is quite different. It is getting people to understand our case. And that means a debate, too, not just one side.

(1) I'm constantly telling myself that Krauss didn't pinch the something from nothing idea from me, or that the sudden popularity of the Cetan sequence as Macro-evidence was nothing to with my arguing it, but I do at least claim this as my Invention - the Atheist Afterlife.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-27-2018 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,198 posts, read 9,111,227 times
Reputation: 6081
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I would like to see more people speaking up and being encouraged to post. 10,000 hits a day I get. Those are people with views and experiences, and I think we'd like to hear them. They shouldn't be afraid to post or think they don't matter; they do.
The general rule is 99 people lurk for every active poster. There are many reasons for this, but I think those of us who post forget that many people simply don't find it either comfortable or easy for various reasons to express themselves in prose. I've seen this even in business correspondence ... and have learned to ruthlessly edit / simplify my business emails to a bare minimum as I find not only is it acutely painful for some people to write ... but many don't have the attention span to more than skim what you write if you don't grab their attention in the first sentence. Sad but true.

Some people are simply wired to be more verbal (literally). Some are closet dyslexics. Some are better than they think they are, but are easily intimidated by people who have honed / polished their writing skills.

That last group should note the people who sometimes post here where English is a second (or distant third) language, people who simply don't have coherent thought processes and it's reflected in their writing ... and realize we really need more good participation. This isn't a writing competition, and you'll improve as you go. I would like to encourage our lurkers to dive in and write ... more participation is good. And due to the moderation here, this is probably the "safest" place on the Internet to post -- you don't have to worry about being savaged, the protests of some fundamentalists here notwithstanding.
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Old 01-27-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,275 posts, read 18,634,241 times
Reputation: 18780
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I would like to encourage our lurkers to dive in and write ... more participation is good. And due to the moderation here, this is probably the "safest" place on the Internet to post -- you don't have to worry about being savaged, the protests of some fundamentalists here notwithstanding.
Might be you-uns issa intimerdatin' them folk wid yer high tone cityfolk talk.

My observation is that while we all seem to be perfectly nice people, there is a defacto hierarchy of sorts with the top floors occupied by those who tend to become intoxicated with the exuberance of their expressive powers.

I salute your good intentions, but see problems in the execution. Are we saying "Come on in and we'll dumb it down for you?"
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Old 01-27-2018, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,198 posts, read 9,111,227 times
Reputation: 6081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Might be you-uns issa intimerdatin' them folk wid yer high tone cityfolk talk.

My observation is that while we all seem to be perfectly nice people, there is a defacto hierarchy of sorts with the top floors occupied by those who tend to become intoxicated with the exuberance of their expressive powers.

I salute your good intentions, but see problems in the execution. Are we saying "Come on in and we'll dumb it down for you?"
No, more like, we're not particularly wonderful, just practiced. You'll improve with practice, too.

Back in the mid 90's I was technical editor for a publication and in that capacity, persuaded many people to write for the first time (and not just the first time for our publication). In fact I didn't know it at the time, but I launched a couple of writing careers. What I always told people is if you have interesting ideas to share we want to publish them, and we'll clean them up for you. Budding authors invariably found, it wasn't some occult art, and they were far more capable than they dreamt.

Alas, we aren't offering editing mojo in this format, but I think practice still makes perfect. Most people don't write because they don't start writing, and have an irrational fear that they'll make a fool of themselves.
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Old 01-27-2018, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,275 posts, read 18,634,241 times
Reputation: 18780
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Most people don't write because they don't start writing,
It would seem logical that the above applies to some, but "most?" How would you know something like that?

Quote:
and have an irrational fear that they'll make a fool of themselves
Based on what I've seen, sometimes that fear was rational.
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