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Old 03-30-2018, 08:39 PM
 
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This is 'anything' and no mistake. But after I'd lifted 'The Simpsons -anti -intellectual' clip this popped up.

It was brilliant. This Irish voice started talking such utter crap that I stayed to find out what the hell he was on about. In fact it seems to be the 'jumping the shark' phenomenon, where a show loses new ideas, good writers, the lead characters leave, and after efforts to keep it going, it is dropped.

It doesn't always happen that way and the bonehead boss syndrome (e.g axeing of Startrek - which later came to be huge - and in the Uk ruining Morecambe and Wise because some producer thought he knew how to be funny better than they did) is another phenomenon. But coming late to the Carole Burnett show and finding the southern family really the best culminating in the Film (putting the sketches together into a stand-alone comedy classic which I would put with 'Death of a Salesman' and 'The general' as master pieces), I saw the attempt to keep it going with the terrible mother (comedy foil) trying to be the main character. But it was all Wrong.

Anyway I thought the intro was brilliant in grabbing my interest, and I look forward to watching it. Perhaps I am rather like Charlie Brown who, explaining why he's reading 'The decline and fall of the Roman empire', the end of civilisation and the end of empires, or some similar titles says: "I've always been fascinated by failure".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqFNbCcyFkk

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-30-2018 at 09:18 PM..
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Old 03-30-2018, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
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I watched the first episode of Cosmos By Neil Degrasse Tyson and I'm more convinced than ever religion is wrong.

We are all so insanely small and insignificant in the milk way galaxy. It's humorous to think practicing religion would make any difference for anything. The show really puts things into how silly religion is.
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Old 03-31-2018, 04:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I watched the first episode of Cosmos By Neil Degrasse Tyson and I'm more convinced than ever religion is wrong.

We are all so insanely small and insignificant in the milk way galaxy. It's humorous to think practicing religion would make any difference for anything. The show really puts things into how silly religion is.
Yes- man made religions, yes. I'd say undeniably, but we both know how denialist denial can be. I won't go into how denial and making the most of far-fetched possibilities can make the claims of One of the man -made religions seem plausible, not only to those who want to justify it, but those who have been spoonfed it but haven't been able to believe it.

But I will mention the rather more interesting hypotheses for a creator -god that created everything including any other lifeforms that may exist in the universe and really has to be theistic evolution on a cosmic scale. It's at least as plausible as panspermia, and simply requires some decent evidence.

Those trying to argue for variants of the idea but trying to nag or bully unbelievers into accepting unknowns and unprovens as Proof are simply the victims of religious indoctrination - even if they dropped the obviously man -made religions, but you try telling them that and they get as angry and upset as a Bible literalist being told that the "Evidence" for Creation is no evidence at all.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:53 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Yes- man made religions, yes. I'd say undeniably, but we both know how denialist denial can be. I won't go into how denial and making the most of far-fetched possibilities can make the claims of One of the man -made religions seem plausible, not only to those who want to justify it, but those who have been spoonfed it but haven't been able to believe it.

But I will mention the rather more interesting hypotheses for a creator -god that created everything including any other lifeforms that may exist in the universe and really has to be theistic evolution on a cosmic scale. It's at least as plausible as panspermia, and simply requires some decent evidence.

Those trying to argue for variants of the idea but trying to nag or bully unbelievers into accepting unknowns and unprovens as Proof are simply the victims of religious indoctrination - even if they dropped the obviously man -made religions, but you try telling them that and they get as angry and upset as a Bible literalist being told that the "Evidence" for Creation is no evidence at all.
This past week, over 68 million lottery tickets were sold, and one and only one defied the double random odds of matching 6 randomly drawn numbers to win over $500 Million
Astronomical odds? maybe, but it happened.

Which starts to make this cat think that in the vastness of the universe, the far reaches of the galaxy, the places where chemistry and physics are working to church out new chemicals, new molecules, some of them the very building blocks of carbon based life (or Silicon, if you live on Janus VI) the odds of a biochemical chain forming are really not all that rare.....

Which makes me think that there is likely life scattered throughout the universe, which with our current technology we cannot measure...yet but probably someday will

I have noticed throughout history how man has evolved from superstition to reason, how once all unknown things were credited to, or blamed on, deities. Now we see over thousands of years as our range of unknowns has decreased, our collective need for "gods" has decreased as well.
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:35 AM
Status: "0-0-2 start!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
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Easter always reminds me of being in 7th and 8th grade in Northern New Jersey. The population was split between Catholic and Jewish and one of the three local Catholic churches had a particularly fiery cleric who really pushed the "Jews killed our Lord" rhetoric, to the point where kids actually started fist fights over it in school.

It also gave me a life-long dislike of ham - we always went over to my aunt's house on Easter and, good Catholic that she was, she had 6 children (the last two were born with serious heart defects, so they stopped having kids at 6) and that meant she was on a budget. WHile the rest of the family brought all the sides, my aunt would supply the ham and it was THE cheapest, largest thing she could find. It tasted like chewy pink wetsuit. I ate the pineapple and cherry off the outside

Also, given the day, sign me up for the list of "People Who Don't Find April Fool Jokes Even Remotely Amusing."
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:31 PM
 
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Yes,, I mentioned once that I am angry at the Big Lie of Christianity, but I am bitterly angry at what Christianity did to the Jews.

The usual finger-pointing at the crusades and the Conquistadores are nothing beside the utterly unjustified persecution of the Jews from Roman times to the present. And they were never to blame for killing Jesus. It was Roman execution. Obviously a Roman execution. And even if the Sanhedrin were involved it was as part of the Roman provincial administration.
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
. And they were never to blame for killing Jesus. It was Roman execution. Obviously a Roman execution. And even if the Sanhedrin were involved it was as part of the Roman provincial administration.
Jesus was killed by the people in authority to whom he represented a threat. The Jesus attack on the money lenders in the Temple courtyard established him as anti-Temple, which meant anti-Sanhedrin, which ultimately meant anti-Rome because Rome ruled Judea through the Sanhedrin.

So, his death was brought about by a combination of authority figures, Jewish and Roman. He wasn't killed by "The Jews" suggestive of a collective guilt, just those Jews who had a vested interest in suppressing anti-Temple rebels. He wasn't killed by all Romans collectively, just by the Roman prelate for Judea who had a vested interest in keeping order during the Sabbath.

So, primarily it was Pilate and the high priests who had Jesus knocked off, all other assignments of blame throughout history have been agenda driven conclusions.
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Yes,, I mentioned once that I am angry at the Big Lie of Christianity, but I am bitterly angry at what Christianity did to the Jews.

The usual finger-pointing at the crusades and the Conquistadores are nothing beside the utterly unjustified persecution of the Jews from Roman times to the present. And they were never to blame for killing Jesus. It was Roman execution. Obviously a Roman execution. And even if the Sanhedrin were involved it was as part of the Roman provincial administration.
I know, it was terrible. And I am certain that, through the ages, there were educated christians who knew better. They just didn't say so, at least not so that anyone could hear.

And it just ****ing ASTOUNDS me about the propensity of people to carry a grudge, justified or not, for centuries. But we see this all over the world, and I wonder if things will ever get better...
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
But I will mention the rather more interesting hypotheses for a creator -god that created everything including any other lifeforms that may exist in the universe and really has to be theistic evolution on a cosmic scale. It's at least as plausible as panspermia, and simply requires some decent evidence.
Agreed. I don't have a problem with a belief in a God or creator of the universe. One can argue that such beliefs are crucial to the sanity of humans who are well aware of their mortality. But as you suggested, sadly the belief in a God is often associated with man-made religion in society, so you have to almost always identify as agnostic or atheist just to make it clear you're not associated with man-made religion.

Obviously I'm not at the philosophical you are , but in layman's terms my main point was studies and documentaries involving the universe make man-made religion look so silly and insignificant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
I have noticed throughout history how man has evolved from superstition to reason, how once all unknown things were credited to, or blamed on, deities. Now we see over thousands of years as our range of unknowns has decreased, our collective need for "gods" has decreased as well.
Well stated and I agree.
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:40 PM
 
39,022 posts, read 10,812,637 times
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Jesus was killed by the people in authority to whom he represented a threat. The Jesus attack on the money lenders in the Temple courtyard established him as anti-Temple, which meant anti-Sanhedrin, which ultimately meant anti-Rome because Rome ruled Judea through the Sanhedrin.

So, his death was brought about by a combination of authority figures, Jewish and Roman. He wasn't killed by "The Jews" suggestive of a collective guilt, just those Jews who had a vested interest in suppressing anti-Temple rebels. He wasn't killed by all Romans collectively, just by the Roman prelate for Judea who had a vested interest in keeping order during the Sabbath.

So, primarily it was Pilate and the high priests who had Jesus knocked off, all other assignments of blame throughout history have been agenda driven conclusions.
I concede that power struggles between the High priests (of the Boethus family) and possible rivals might be a historical element, and it has crossed my mind that the whole Temple episode could have been anti Temple polemic by the Paulinist Greek -Christian evangelists; which is to say, all four of them.

But my own bet is on a real event that the evangelists tried to cover up in various ways, and why would they do that if it was just what they wanted to hear?

I think they tried to disguise the significance of it as attempted anti roman rebellion. Just as they disguised in various ways the significance of the anointing.
Which is why the one charge that would have seen Jesus crucified - an insurrection in the temple - which Pilate of course knew about - isn't even considered,

Which is why the punishment dealt out to rebels like Spartacus - crucifixion - was the result, and why the charge (agreed by all four - even John) indicated rebellion, not blasphemy.

That is why I say it was a Roman execution and it was a rebellion against Their authority rather than Priestly authority. That is why I say that if the High Priests were involved it was because they were co-operating in provincial rule. Caiaphas had the job when Pilate was appointed (what 15 AD?) and he was in that post until Pilate was recalled (I think 36AD), an utterly unusually prolonged term for both of them.

Your average Jew in the street was nothing to do with this. In fact, I also think that people generally sided with Jesus. I have never been convinced by the argument that a crowd that had been cheering him to the skies after his bust up in the temple would simply turn against him (that was the explanation in my religion class) and be clamouring for the release on an insurrectionist called Jesus and roaring for the crucifixion of the Jesus that was called the Christ.

And in a release custom nobody has ever heard of and which serves only to shift the responsibility for killing Jesus from Rome (which as Romans, they could not bear) to the Jews, whom (as Greeks AND as Romans) they hated anyway.

Just to make sure, Matthew has that "representative" crowd of Jews endorsing Pilate's exoneration of Rome (1) and taking on the guilt for themselves, and for their descendants; a brutal and beastly passage that is the spark that lit the Holocaust.

(1) I believe that the hand -washing appears only in Matthew. I might also mention that Luke also has the mockery and beating shifted from Pilate's men to Herod's.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-01-2018 at 11:02 PM.. Reason: Typos 26 Ad indeed!
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