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Old 06-29-2018, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,823 posts, read 18,553,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post

Or maybe he eventually convinced a single deist that they were wrong. And when TRANSPONDER came to this realization, his head exploded.
At least that would be better than if it were the other way around and some deist has persuaded him to embrace Jesus, and scorn the Philistines and money changers that compose this wicked forum.
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
At least that would be better than if it were the other way around and some deist has persuaded him to embrace Jesus
Isn't that a thing here on CD? When someone switches their earlier positions (faith, politics, etc) that sometimes they just make a new account? I'm sure I've seen it before with people saying that "Well, I used to post as ABC123 but after I realized I was wrong about faith/politics/whatever, I'm not XYZ789."
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:20 AM
 
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Default The large crowd listened to him with great delight. Mark 12.37

This passage popped into my head when I was reading one of Shirina's shellacks and knew what Mark meant - the feeling of delight in seeing the Other side given a total pounding.

But it's an odd thing - that particular passage relates to 'How can the messiah be David's son?' and without going into a dissertation, nobody can understand the answer to this. Not least the Evangelists as it seems to be proving that if Jesus is the son of David, he can't be the messiah. So the point is not explained, and it's just left with the crowd tickled pink at seing the teachers of the law confused.

And there's the clue. That is hardly the reaction of the Jews who crowded into the Temple - to see their teachers made to look fools, but it does reflect the reactions of a Christian who would just love to see this happen, and from Mark to John, Jesus himself is made to put down the teachers of the Law with the crowd relishing their being reduced to floorwipes. It is wishful thinking on the part of the writers and the touchstone case for this is David and the Shewbread.

This argument is rubbish; apart from the priest laying down conditions for David having the bread and David meeting them, even if David had said, "bugger that", pushed his fist in Abiathar or Abiamelech's face and just taken the bread...how does that justify tossing the 4th commandment in the bin?

No - the agenda is that the Christian writer of the Synoptic gospel (1) was going all out to debunk the validity of the Jewish laws for Christians at least, and what better way to do it than to have Jesus reciting the Christian apologetics and silencing the Rabbis? Of course, the trick is that the Christians don't know that the arguments would not last two minutes against a Real teacher of the Law, but you don't have them there to say a word, oh no.

Bells ringing? Yep there was a thread 'how to defeat an atheist in two minutes'. And it was just the same - you come up with an argument that will not only apparenlty floor an atheist but it is claimed that it did so, and this delights the crowd of believers who 'listen with delight' to this tale of atheists stumped and silenced.

It isn't the only example of this - there was the mathematician..Lennox I believe...who told a little anecdote to an adoring crowd of how he flummoxed some atheist professor with some argument which -like the fellow who can refute atheism by drawing a circle, wouldn't stand up against an atheist apologist. So while such an argument might have worked against a savant who was not an experienced apologist (2) it would not work when presented to a couple of trained goddless bastards such as myself and Raffa.

This is the trick - both in the gospel writers and in the posters of videos with 'how I stumped an atheist' anecdotes, Eric Hovind and Ken Ham mocking and sniping at Bible -denying Evilooshunits, the dude tipping out a shoebox with a replica of Lucy's skeleton and after some mocking misrepresentation of how much of it there is, asks his stooge audience whether they are convinced it is a human or a chimp, and the atheist professor vid where some girl did a Gish gallop of lies and misrepresentation of evolution...(3) and the Professor stands there gaping and does not get to say a word. There is a remarkable sameness about this crowd -fooling piece of rhetoric.... Don't actually have the opposition there. Just have those who only want their faith -based biases confirmed (4).

(1) my Theory being that there was an original which all three - Mark, Matthew and Luke based theirs on and None of the present three are the original.

(2) it has become clear to me that being a scientist or philosopher does not necessarily equip one to deal with Theist apologetics. Atheist apologetics requires a rather different discipline or expertise and of course (as yet) there are no courses, diplomas or chairs of atheism at any university. Friends - the short shrift we godless bastards get is truly shocking and we don't even realise it.

(3) sorry to keep saying 'evolution' but it is remarkable how often the initial target is evolution. I swear that the thinking is, if you can refute and debunk evolution, then you have refuted atheism as well and there is only one option in life and that is to take Jesusgod as your lord and savior. It gobsmacked me when I first heard this utter string of non sequiturs, but that is absolutely how they think.

(4) I have said before that the 'what' debate is done. This is the 'How'. That's done, too, pretty much; we are familiar with the ploys, rhetoric and trickery. But occasionally some new facet comes up that is worth a look at.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-08-2018 at 10:57 AM.. Reason: Needs a rewrite.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Bravo old beast!
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Old 09-09-2018, 04:10 PM
 
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Default This is relevant...I swear!

Just about...or I can pretend it is. But really I'd love to know whether this has been noticed or suspected or indeed is generally known and you will say "Jesus, does this cement -head think this is anything New?"

But I'm sorta pleased as when you solve a problem -like when I finally understand some Gospel -puzzle like why Mark apparently gets the direction of Bethsaida wrong (actually it only looks like that because the feeding of 4,000 is shoehorned in there) or why herod cares about when the star appeared - because he needs to know in advance what age child he will need to be targeting when the Wise men fail to report back, Wise guys that they are.

It was...ahmm... confession time. I have been looking at Hell's kitchen (US) when i should have been getting on with the Book, and series 15 and 16 struck me as a bit scripted. I checked and some studio "Arrangements" and Invited diners rather than people walking in to buy a meal and so -on is known to happen, as well as sous -chefs stepping in (in fact a raft of Chefs) if a team gets kicked out.

I was intrigued to see that the supervising chef was a former contestant. So I checked and found that she was in episode 10.

So I watched it. I'm about half -way and I am already convinced that She had the job before she even turned up. First test, I sniffed a mouse when she was the Decisive last dish for the ladies and got full marks. It got even smellier when she almost NO Shine and it was all two girls (one black one white - nice and polarising) going at it hammer and tongs and Chr...the eventual winner, only once stepping in to save service like a proper -little sous -chef after which, the Chef said 'At last, you found your voice'. It was about time she was given something to say.

While after that she was given a bit more to do, she never seemed to cook anything on service, but hung around Supervising but letting yet again a tray of scallops that a five year old could see weren't cooked go to the pass.

That's when it clicked.

You have the two actresses rowing and fighting - but getting together to cook a dish, mind - just so they could row about it.
You had again the eventual winner coming with a decisive dish to get full marks, though not enough to save the team.
And you have some cannon -fodder bit parts to be voted off so as the leave the two leads intact to fight all the way to the end.

Damn' they even brought them back in 'all stars' so they could fight some more.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-09-2018 at 04:20 PM..
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:30 AM
 
39,023 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Default Gahh!!!!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBYdmed8qXQ

I'm sorry folks, but I have lost my cool at this wretched and damnable bit of dishonest propaganda.

I was looking for a vaguely 'what Christians thing of atheists' clip to tack onto a post and I came across this after looking at an 'Atheist changes his mind' vid in case some new argument had come up. It was just the old First cause argument (which proves nothing about the Christianity) which is their best gap for God, but (as we have seen here) not good enough.

But this one was even worse. The young lady answered fairly and reasonably, and Ray Comfort (yes I recognised the voice) played the 'Who made everything, then?' gambit followed up by 'look at the trees and flowers' appeal to complexity fallacy and then edit, edit so we just hear Comfort peddling scripture (and his products) as though it proved something and the girl, if she made any response, we never get to hear it.

I should love her to post and tell us what her replies were. If she didn't have any, we can supply them. Comfort's arguments are total crap.

We have all seen this 'Only present One side' religious polemic before. I really do keep my cool, but this kind of Religious lying for Jesus does steam me. It really does.
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Old 09-15-2018, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,823 posts, read 18,553,245 times
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I'm in a nitpicky mood, this doesn't rate a new topic, but are there certain little aspects of any religion that are especially annoying to you? I don't mean the big picture where it is all simply nonsense, rather I reference specific practices, prayers, songs, the associated trivia of religion, which grates on you?

As an altar boy, I was present for dozens of funerals, all of which ended at the graveside when the priest intoned:
"...earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust, in the sure and certain hope of the resurrection to eternal life."

Two years back I attended a neighbor's funeral which was a Lutheran service, and that too ended with the same prayer.

My complaint is with the last part...."the sure and certain hope of the resurrection.." They managed to squeeze in both the errors of redundancy (sure and certain are synonyms) and of self contradiction with the oxymoronic "sure and certain hope." If it was sure and/or certain, there would be no need for hope. If it's a hope, then it cannot be sure or certain.

It's just a dumb thing to say, yet it gets said over and over everyday when we dispose of our stiffs.
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Old 09-15-2018, 05:43 PM
 
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Apparently, someone did some sort of research and "Amazing Grace" is the most popular song in the US--sung at funerals, military functions, in church. It's the church hymn President Obama sang in that black church he visited. I had to arrange a version for violin with piano accompaniment for my students, using Finale software, because they wanted it. And it sits well for the violin and is easy to play.

But the lyrics are annoying. "Saved a wretch like me?" How horrible and self-effacing is that. Really an awful word to begin with.

Both of my grandmothers were church organists, and I collect hymnals. I have one dated 1913. And, oddly, I like playing in church, usually televised Easter or Christmas pageants in wealthy communities with big budgets that can hire ringers to come in. Sometimes they have actual livestock on stage, and it's just a hoot. If it's a service for some loud-mouthed con artist, it does feel like you're prostituting your talent, but the pay, if they have five or six performances, is substantial. But the lyrics are pretty gruesome sometimes.

Last edited by KaraZetterberg153; 09-15-2018 at 05:52 PM..
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Old 09-15-2018, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,823 posts, read 18,553,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153 View Post
Apparently, someone did some sort of research and "Amazing Grace" is the most popular song in the US--sung at funerals, military functions, in church. It's the church hymn President Obama sang in that black church he visited. I had to arrange a version for violin with piano accompaniment for my students, using Finale software, because they wanted it. And it sits well for the violin and is easy to play.

But the lyrics are annoying. "Saved a wretch like me?" How horrible and self-effacing is that. Really an awful word to begin with.
In Catholic grade school we were taught to sing "O Sacred Head Surrounded" The lyrics:
O Sacred Head, surrounded
by crown of piercing thorn!
O bleeding Head, so wounded,
reviled and put to scorn!
Death's pallor hue hangs ore' thee
The glow of life decays
yet angel hosts adore Thee
and tremble as they gaze

We see Thy strength and vigor
receding in Thy strife,
and death with cruel rigor,
depriving Thee of life;
O agony and dying!
O love to sinners free!
Jesus, all grace supplying,
O turn Thy face on me.

I think that is just what you want to highlight about Jesus for 4th graders, how grisly and gooey his death was.
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Old 09-15-2018, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,147 posts, read 8,195,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
In Catholic grade school we were taught to sing "O Sacred Head Surrounded" The lyrics:
O Sacred Head, surrounded
by crown of piercing thorn!
O bleeding Head, so wounded,
reviled and put to scorn!
Death's pallor hue hangs ore' thee
The glow of life decays
yet angel hosts adore Thee
and tremble as they gaze

We see Thy strength and vigor
receding in Thy strife,
and death with cruel rigor,
depriving Thee of life;
O agony and dying!
O love to sinners free!
Jesus, all grace supplying,
O turn Thy face on me.

I think that is just what you want to highlight about Jesus for 4th graders, how grisly and gooey his death was.
We sang that in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church that I attended until I was 18. Several times a year, mostly during Lent, but occasionally just because. What a dirge that sucker is.
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