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I hate to admit this for fear of being considered a "bleeding heart sissy boy" . . . but I find myself abashed at the treatment people seem willing to dish out to others on the basis of annoyance. The vast majority of them are sincere and devout believers in God (whatever silly things they do or do not believe ABOUT God). They hardly deserve such ungracious . . . not to say egregious treatment for it. It is hardly loving and considerate . . . just saying.
Is it loving and considerate to knock on a total stranger's door and regurgitate predigested and impertinent messages about their unworthiness and pending doom?
I hate to admit this for fear of being considered a "bleeding heart sissy boy" . . . but I find myself abashed at the treatment people seem willing to dish out to others on the basis of annoyance. The vast majority of them are sincere and devout believers in God (whatever silly things they do or do not believe ABOUT God). They hardly deserve such ungracious . . . not to say egregious treatment for it. It is hardly loving and considerate . . . just saying.
Mystic I don't know what your experiences with these people are but I've had many a Jehovas Witness encounter over the years - interesting that the formula was the same in Britain 5000 miles away. They turn up smartly dressed and very polite with some opening asking if you are concerned about rising crime or being worried about the future of the world.
Of course everyone is concerned about rising crime and the future of the world. So they quickly engage you in conversation making it very difficult to tell them you are not interested. Your other option is to just shut the door in their face - not very polite I'm sure you will agree.
So when people turn up on your doorstep to tell you you are living your life the wrong way and you believe the wrong thing, I think it is fair game to set them straight. If they want to challenge my beliefs on my doorstep, I'm going to challenge theirs. I'm sure they are very aware of what they are getting into.
Personally I would never dream in a million years of knocking on someones door to propose to tell them that they should stop believing in god and outlining all the reasons why.
Why wouldn't I do that? Because its unethical and an invasion of privacy.
Funny story Shirina . Thanks. Unfortunately I have to spread my reputation around before I can rep you again.
On that note, if anybody has any views on loosening up this repping system a bit, I've been quite vocal about it on someone else's thread....
Was any body able to watch the first episode of the new Cosmos last night?
Actually I thought Neil DeGrasse Tyson did a great job.
I thought the new series preserved spirit of the original. It's a sort of dumbed down (not in a bad way) version of cosmology, which like the original version, is accessible to both kids and adults, so I liked it for that - a sort of Star Trek-meets-science version of Cosmology.
I hope the new version inspires and educates kids in the same way as the old one did.
I did find it a little bit too 'Americanised' (sorry not meant to be insulting to Americans) with too much time taken up with a story about Giordano Bruno, an Italian mystic who had a vision about the universe being infinite, and his subsequent opposition from the various churches of the time and his eventual incarceration and martyrdom. There was a reference to 'separation of church and state' at one point which I wish had been left out.
There was also a brief reference to 'multiverses' which again I thought was unnecessary. This is a theory which though popular with some, can never be proved, but I guess they were just covering all bases.
All in all I liked it. This version is better visually of course, being able to take advantage of todays superior graphics. But I doubt it will have the lasting impact of the original, since the original was so groundbreaking for its time.
** Intro by Obama as well ! They are really making something of this series. (I can't remember any British science series being introduced by the PM! ) **
Was any body able to watch the first episode of the new Cosmos last night?
Actually I thought Neil DeGrasse Tyson did a great job.
I thought the new series preserved spirit of the original. It's a sort of dumbed down (not in a bad way) version of cosmology, which like the original version, is accessible to both kids and adults, so I liked it for that
One way in which it was dumbed down was simply less content. The original NOVA ran commercial free on PBS and was 55-60 minutes per episode. The Fox version, with commercials subtracted, ran for about 40 minutes.
I enjoyed the tribute at the end with Tyson mentioning his personal connection to Carl Sagan. Up until then I was thinking that Tyson seemed to lack that sense of astonishing wonder which always came through with Sagan. Tyson was certainly competent, but I don't think he connects with viewers quite as well as Sagan did.
I understand the annoyance and aggravation, even. But there is a simple gracious way to terminate it that doesn't involve ridicule, frightening or otherwise retaliating for any perceived invasion of privacy. I have turned away Mormons and JW's many times without engaging in anything demeaning or ungracious. But then . . . I am not a believer in vengeance or retaliation, per se.
I understand the annoyance and aggravation, even. But there is a simple gracious way to terminate it that doesn't involve ridicule, frightening or otherwise retaliating for any perceived invasion of privacy. I have turned away Mormons and JW's many times without engaging in anything demeaning or ungracious. But then . . . I am not a believer in vengeance or retaliation, per se.
Me neither.
But I live by the golden rule. Treat others as you expect to be treated.
I'd never dream of pushing my views on someone else on their doorstep. I'm not even comfortable with my girls selling girls scout cookies door to door, let alone challenging people's beliefs. It's not a perceived invasion of privacy - it is an invasion of privacy. And if were just a case of saying 'no thank you very much I'm really not interested' and them saying 'thank you for your time' and leaving, I'd be absolutely fine with that.
But its not like that. They come with a script and its very difficult to get them to leave, forcing people to resort to the sort of tactics described here to get them to go away. Sorry Mystic, but they bring it on themselves. Nobody is forcing them to go and knock on peoples doors.
Was any body able to watch the first episode of the new Cosmos last night?
Actually I thought Neil DeGrasse Tyson did a great job.
I thought the new series preserved spirit of the original. It's a sort of dumbed down (not in a bad way) version of cosmology, which like the original version, is accessible to both kids and adults, so I liked it for that - a sort of Star Trek-meets-science version of Cosmology.
I hope the new version inspires and educates kids in the same way as the old one did.
I did find it a little bit too 'Americanised' (sorry not meant to be insulting to Americans) with too much time taken up with a story about Giordano Bruno, an Italian mystic who had a vision about the universe being infinite, and his subsequent opposition from the various churches of the time and his eventual incarceration and martyrdom. There was a reference to 'separation of church and state' at one point which I wish had been left out.
There was also a brief reference to 'multiverses' which again I thought was unnecessary. This is a theory which though popular with some, can never be proved, but I guess they were just covering all bases.
All in all I liked it. This version is better visually of course, being able to take advantage of todays superior graphics. But I doubt it will have the lasting impact of the original, since the original was so groundbreaking for its time.
** Intro by Obama as well ! They are really making something of this series. (I can't remember any British science series being introduced by the PM! ) **
I actually did tune in to part of it. I liked the tone ND Tyson took, not so overbearing as usual. But I did find myself wondering, "Why did he say that?" a couple times because the point he was trying to make was not what I understood as any current view on science. I.E. how and when our moon came to be.
I didn't notice any dumbing down (or maybe the moon thing was some of it) because I wasn't paying attention all that much! And I don't mind including popular versions on multiverses or whatever... statements like that merely pique interest and maybe introduces concepts that viewers might look into themselves.
And the tribute to Sagan at the end was very nice as well. I'm glad he did that.
As far as being introduced by the Prez, I didn't see that but wouldn't have any objection. Does anyone wonder, as I do, if this program and maybe others is in response to the uber attention religion is getting these days; you know, two new movies that just came out, etc. To drag this out a little more I see movies like that and all the hoopla being made about religion being under attack (lol) as right-wing or fundamental jumping up and down for attention, seeing that they are losing their grip on the populace.
I understand the annoyance and aggravation, even. But there is a simple gracious way to terminate it that doesn't involve ridicule, frightening or otherwise retaliating for any perceived invasion of privacy. I have turned away Mormons and JW's many times without engaging in anything demeaning or ungracious. But then . . . I am not a believer in vengeance or retaliation, per se.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
Me neither.
But I live by the golden rule. Treat others as you expect to be treated.
I'd never dream of pushing my views on someone else on their doorstep. I'm not even comfortable with my girls selling girls scout cookies door to door, let alone challenging people's beliefs. It's not a perceived invasion of privacy - it is an invasion of privacy. And if were just a case of saying 'no thank you very much I'm really not interested' and them saying 'thank you for your time' and leaving, I'd be absolutely fine with that.
But its not like that. They come with a script and its very difficult to get them to leave, forcing people to resort to the sort of tactics described here to get them to go away. Sorry Mystic, but they bring it on themselves. Nobody is forcing them to go and knock on peoples doors.
I do understand. I do not intend to insult or appear chauvinistic, Cruithne . . . but I must admit that it is sometimes more difficult for females to assert their authority in withdrawing from and shutting down such encounters. I am an imposing male with a strong presence and unequivocal demeanor. I seldom have any difficulty in asserting my preferences in social encounters. My wife on the other hand is frequently locked into encounters she would prefer to end. However, she is routinely and always gracious and eventually successful in doing so without malice or offense.
I understand the annoyance and aggravation, even. But there is a simple gracious way to terminate it that doesn't involve ridicule, frightening or otherwise retaliating for any perceived invasion of privacy. I have turned away Mormons and JW's many times without engaging in anything demeaning or ungracious. But then . . . I am not a believer in vengeance or retaliation, per se.
Hi, Mystic,
I think most people would agree with you initially. But lots of people try the "polite" route only to be targeted by JW's again and again. Once patience runs out, all's fair. And you can't say some of them don't deserve it. Yes, I know that sounds like taking revenge, but it's more frustration than anything.
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