U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-27-2016, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,950 posts, read 18,569,815 times
Reputation: 18673

Advertisements

TRANSPONDER
Quote:
They probably would, but the one who had the good evidence of authenticity would simply have that better basis for their satisfaction than the other.
The basis for the satisfaction would be the belief, and in that context the beliefs are equal, even if the validity of the beliefs are not.

Quote:
I am sure you see the analogy with belief on faith and belief on evidence.
I described belief on good evidence and belief on fraudulent evidence. The latter is part of the definition of faith, but doesn't account for all forms of faith.


From your continued response to mordant, I see that we are not thinking about the same aspects. You are offering practical tips as to how to avoid being swindled in this dynamic of perceived values. I'm questioning the whole program, as in how did we arrive in a situation where we are attaching so much value to mere perceptions?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-28-2016, 06:29 AM
 
39,066 posts, read 10,842,814 times
Reputation: 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
TRANSPONDER

The basis for the satisfaction would be the belief, and in that context the beliefs are equal, even if the validity of the beliefs are not.
The satisfaction in belief that a thing is for real the pearl handled revolver that Washington used at the battle of Trafalgar is as good as knowing that you own a replica G Patten pattern non - firing replica. The value of the item is inherently the same. a chunk of metal and pearl. The difference is in the validated knowledge and that is a huge value -difference.


Quote:
I described belief on good evidence and belief on fraudulent evidence. The latter is part of the definition of faith, but doesn't account for all forms of faith.


From your continued response to mordant, I see that we are not thinking about the same aspects. You are offering practical tips as to how to avoid being swindled in this dynamic of perceived values. I'm questioning the whole program, as in how did we arrive in a situation where we are attaching so much value to mere perceptions?
Right. Though I am talking there (and here) about the value of not being fooled, which is while a human preference, like Occam's razor, is based in practicalities. And survival instincts as a source, though now used to survive in a concrete rather than leafy jungle. As to how that go to where 'art' seems to have become an industry where a painting is a blank cheque if it happens to get picked out of the mix by the experts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,950 posts, read 18,569,815 times
Reputation: 18673
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
the pearl handled revolver that Washington used at the battle of Trafalgar.
What a coincidence....I own that. I bought it from a perfectly reputable antiques dealer who worked out of his car behind the Greyhound Station in Reno. I got a certificate of authenticity which I know is the real deal because I watched him print it up on the spot.

He also sold me the motorcycle helmet which Harriet Tubman used when traveling from lecture to lecture, but I'm willing to let it go for the right price.

Interested?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,862 posts, read 3,786,717 times
Reputation: 4594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
What a coincidence....I own that. I bought it from a perfectly reputable antiques dealer who worked out of his car behind the Greyhound Station in Reno. I got a certificate of authenticity which I know is the real deal because I watched him print it up on the spot.

He also sold me the motorcycle helmet which Harriet Tubman used when traveling from lecture to lecture, but I'm willing to let it go for the right price.

Interested?
I suspect your friends Mark Twain watch might have a similar story.
If I'm honest I wouldn't be surprised if Mark Twain never existed. The name Mark Twain itself of course is the pen name belonging to Samuel Clemens. So the person rather than the name is real.
Not that I'm one for conspiracy theories but I've concocted my own little theory in my head that Mark Twain could all be an elaborate hoax. The reason I think this is because literally every location I have ever visited in America, Mark Twain has been there first.
It should not be so surprising that he has visited all the usual American tourist traps - Yosemite / giant redwoods etc.given that he was a travel writer. But he also visited the local park a 2 minute walk from my house where I lived in California. There's an plaque/old photo of him standing amongst a group of people right there in the park.
Then where I live now in New York he owned an estate about 15 minutes from where I live.
I've also stood in some of the same spots where he stood in Hawaii. Hawaii is not exactly a convenient place get to nowadays, let alone way back then. Wherever I go, I now fully expect to see a tourist plaque telling me that Mark Twain got there first. How many places can one man living in the 1800's have visited? Very spooky I tell you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 08:35 AM
 
39,066 posts, read 10,842,814 times
Reputation: 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
What a coincidence....I own that. I bought it from a perfectly reputable antiques dealer who worked out of his car behind the Greyhound Station in Reno. I got a certificate of authenticity which I know is the real deal because I watched him print it up on the spot.

He also sold me the motorcycle helmet which Harriet Tubman used when traveling from lecture to lecture, but I'm willing to let it go for the right price.

Interested?
I'd bid for it, but right now I'm raising a second mortgage to pay for the actual saddle of the charger on which was brought the head of John the baptist. Its' authenticity is attested by two witnesses. One being a certificate in Greek and on real parchment:
"I John the Baptist,certify that this is the saddle of the actual charger on which my head was brought to Salome." AND the saddle has the name "John" acid - etched on the leather.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-28-2016 at 08:38 AM.. Reason: Apostrophe. I will never forgive myself for "King's"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,889,935 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
So funny you should bring this subject up.
I'm a real sucker for 'old stuff'. Just this weekend I happened to stop by an estate sale - something I rarely do. This guy recently died - he was hoarder and left collections of vintage / antiques piled floor to ceiling.
I recently discovered Fiestaware pottery - and he had tonnes of it, so I picked up 3 teapots and a few other vintage 1930's items. I knew by the shape that one of the teapots was original 1930's and the other two were newer. I got them for $15 dollars each. When I got them home I immediately looked up the older piece. It's worth about $375. The other two I didn't think were worth much (not that I bought any of them for what they are worth - bought them because I liked them). But I discovered that one of the modern teapots was only produced in the 1980's for 2 years and is also worth almost $200.
My husbands eyes lit up. He told me to go back and get the rest and sell it on ebay. Yeah right because I'm really going to do that...I'd just fill my house with it and it would just sit there.

Now a teapot is a teapot you might think. But what is it about Fiestaware that some people love so much to make it so collectible? It must be the shape: the artdeco style that makes it so appealing? Not just to me but to others?
LMAO!! True enough. The same reason I needed Gloria Vanderbilt jeans in high school. For some reason everyone liked them, and that made them valuable to me. At the time, I'm sure I could see why. Throughout time, one has to think that we as humans find certain things more pleasant than others. The artist that either stumbles or identifies that hits the jackpot. Some artists hit the jackpot too late. lol They are no longer here to enjoy the hit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,862 posts, read 3,786,717 times
Reputation: 4594
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
LMAO!! True enough. The same reason I needed Gloria Vanderbilt jeans in high school. For some reason everyone liked them, and that made them valuable to me. At the time, I'm sure I could see why. Throughout time, one has to think that we as humans find certain things more pleasant than others. The artist that either stumbles or identifies that hits the jackpot. Some artists hit the jackpot too late. lol They are no longer here to enjoy the hit.
Oh I remember that Gloria Vanderbilt phase... they were popular in the UK too. Then Levi's produced those fab 1950's style ads.. did you get those...? With the half naked guy sitting in the laundromat with the 'heard it through the grapevine' music? Then GAP trounced them with their swing music ads.
They did great TV ads in those days.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 09:07 AM
 
39,066 posts, read 10,842,814 times
Reputation: 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
I suspect your friends Mark Twain watch might have a similar story.
If I'm honest I wouldn't be surprised if Mark Twain never existed. The name Mark Twain itself of course is the pen name belonging to Samuel Clemens. So the person rather than the name is real.
Not that I'm one for conspiracy theories but I've concocted my own little theory in my head that Mark Twain could all be an elaborate hoax. The reason I think this is because literally every location I have ever visited in America, Mark Twain has been there first.
It should not be so surprising that he has visited all the usual American tourist traps - Yosemite / giant redwoods etc.given that he was a travel writer. But he also visited the local park a 2 minute walk from my house where I lived in California. There's an plaque/old photo of him standing amongst a group of people right there in the park.
Then where I live now in New York he owned an estate about 15 minutes from where I live.
I've also stood in some of the same spots where he stood in Hawaii. Hawaii is not exactly a convenient place get to nowadays, let alone way back then. Wherever I go, I now fully expect to see a tourist plaque telling me that Mark Twain got there first. How many places can one man living in the 1800's have visited? Very spooky I tell you.

You're quite right. It's incredible the amount of ground Arthur covered in the curse of making a Camp or building a wall so he could name it after himself or sitting there. It's a good view but seems a long way to go for a sit down.
Attached Thumbnails
Chat about anything thread.-arthurs-seat.jpg  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,950 posts, read 18,569,815 times
Reputation: 18673
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I'd bid for it, but right now I'm raising a second mortgage to pay for the actual saddle of the charger on which was brought the head of John the baptist. Its' authenticity is attested by two witnesses. One being a certificate in Greek and on real parchment:
"I John the Baptist,certify that this is the saddle of the actual charger on which my head was brought to Salome." AND the saddle has the name "John" acid - etched on the leather.
Sounds cool. If you do get it and grow tired of it, I'm willing to swap it for my Three True Nails which were used to affix Jesus to the cross. In fact, if you act right now, I'll double the offer....two sets of The Three True Nails, just pay separate shipping & handling.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,950 posts, read 18,569,815 times
Reputation: 18673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
I've concocted my own little theory in my head that Mark Twain could all be an elaborate hoax. The reason I think this is because literally every location I have ever visited in America, Mark Twain has been there first.
.
Well, we all have our pet theories along these lines. Mine is that there is actually only one Fruit Cake in the world which no one ever eats, they just get it as a Christmas gift and then re-gift it to some other unfortunate the following year and so forth. No one would ever actually eat one of those things, so there only needs to be one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top