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Old 10-10-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,130 posts, read 18,599,788 times
Reputation: 18731

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Clearly the Republican base does not, it is just a question that it's not quite strong enough even with a weak opponent, to work its will. .
Perhaps Secretary Clinton would be perceived as a stronger candidate if she radiated the appearance of running on behalf of people other than women and children. The opposition is counting on fusing an image in voter's minds of an America tottering on the brink of disaster from within and without, a calamitous situation which requires the vaguely defined extreme solutions of a Donald Trump. While it is a false, propaganda oriented image, the counter to it isn't "Here's what I'm going to do for women and children."

Nor is the counter "I'm going to bring us all together" because, well, is that what we actually want? I should think the goal is actually making sure that we keep political power out of the hands of demagogues and fundamentalists, not bringing those folks into the fold.

Instead they should be doing to Trump what the Democrats did to Barry Goldwater in 1964, making voters believe that Trump is a loose cannon and impulsively dangerous actor. It shouldn't be a hard sell because Trump actually is a loose cannon who makes snap judgments based on his caprice.
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Old 10-10-2016, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,094,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Perhaps Secretary Clinton would be perceived as a stronger candidate if she radiated the appearance of running on behalf of people other than women and children. The opposition is counting on fusing an image in voter's minds of an America tottering on the brink of disaster from within and without, a calamitous situation which requires the vaguely defined extreme solutions of a Donald Trump. While it is a false, propaganda oriented image, the counter to it isn't "Here's what I'm going to do for women and children."

Nor is the counter "I'm going to bring us all together" because, well, is that what we actually want? I should think the goal is actually making sure that we keep political power out of the hands of demagogues and fundamentalists, not bringing those folks into the fold.

Instead they should be doing to Trump what the Democrats did to Barry Goldwater in 1964, making voters believe that Trump is a loose cannon and impulsively dangerous actor. It shouldn't be a hard sell because Trump actually is a loose cannon who makes snap judgments based on his caprice.
I agree that Clinton can't match trump in terms of visceral appeal and symbolic innuendo. And her wonky discussion of progressive ideals is frequently yawn-inducing even for someone who is interested in substantive answers. Bernie Sanders did better in terms of first impressions, but become repetitive pretty quickly. In fairness, this is all partly because the details of governance and policy aren't very sexy, inherently, to most people. Voters decide who to vote for based on who they feel "understood" by, who is "on their side", who will "solve the problems" they perceive, and who will follow their ideology of choice.

Clinton's other problem is that not 100% of what Trump said / claimed was patently false. Much of what he said that was true was overdetermined and exaggerated and/or misapplied and/or not relevant, but you can't dismiss everything he claimed as utter fabrication either. Clinton is a weak opponent in that regard.

Too many vote for Clinton while holding their noses, and with good reason. But that so many vote enthusiastically for the likes of Trump ... that I have trouble getting my brain around, even if I intellectually grasp most of the relevant mechanics.
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,130 posts, read 18,599,788 times
Reputation: 18731
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
. But that so many vote enthusiastically for the likes of Trump ... that I have trouble getting my brain around, even if I intellectually grasp most of the relevant mechanics.
If the average IQ is between 90 and 110, that still leaves about half of the people below average. Being below average in IQ does not disqualify you as a voter, so at any given time there is a ready made audience for the politically fraudulent.

And sometimes even the above average IQ folks get carried away by emotional circumstances and make common cause with most everyone else. The support for the invasion of Iraq springs instantly to mind as an example. If Trump had the immediate aftermath of 9/11 to work with rather than the isolated incidents spread out over a number of years, he likely would be winning.
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Old 10-10-2016, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,514 posts, read 3,921,774 times
Reputation: 9927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl3r View Post
"Jennifer" was a random name. I mean for girls and guys it's the same.

"What do you like doing?"
Oh, I'm not really into anything...


It's not that I'm failing to listen to them; it's that they've never expressed an interest in anything and I want to know what gets them excited, what do they wait all day to go home and do, what keeps them up at night waiting for the sun to come out again and there ISN'T anything.

They don't play piano, they don't know how to program, they don't like cars, they don't like pets, they don't have a hobby.

You can't twist this around to make me the bad guy
In what context?


Say you're in a comic shop and you walk up to someone and say, 'what are you into', then you have context as they will assume you mean what comics do they like. But to turn to someone in a coffee shop and ask the same question, you're gonna get weird looks and non-committal answers.


Specific questions elicit better answers. Questions in a specific setting will also do better - such as standing in line at the movies you could ask 'do you like sci-fi? I was thinking about going to see the new Star Wars movie in December'.
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Old 10-10-2016, 02:56 PM
 
39,207 posts, read 10,887,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl3r View Post
I'm sort of interested in this. Don't you think God is a superfluous explanation? If not, why?
I personally am worried of the same situation, but without the God parts:

"but believe dumb stuff like we can do what we want with the world, and if it takes nukes on Syria to sort the problem, that's what they'll do. That, not Trump himself, is the danger."

If they believe these things because of faith in God, then I am in full agreement with you. I just haven't yet seen anything that makes me think that.
I'm thinking of that dude in the senate who spoke up for Genesis and Pence, who came up with the most bonehead attack on evolution I ever heard.
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Old 10-10-2016, 02:59 PM
 
39,207 posts, read 10,887,543 times
Reputation: 5096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl3r View Post
Besides Trump, one thing that really gets on my nerves goes like this:

Hey, I'm Skyl3r.

I'm Jennifer (random name)

So, what are you into?

Uhm... Not really anything...



I don't mean the cases where someone just doesn't wanna share details with you; I mean the people who legitimately aren't into anything. Hooooowww? How can you not be into anything? What do you do all day?

The people I get along with are the ones who get excited about something. They got a new motorcycle they wanna go home and work on and learn about. They want to write a new program with this new knowledge they just got.
There's literally not enough time in the day to be able to do everything I want to do. Then there's people sitting on their asses doing nothing, 14 hours at a time. I just can't fathom this.
Ah! I get excited about a lot of things. I sometimes take advantage of Mod. generosity in posting music or Asian or military history. But I know that people don't really want to hear about it.
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Old 10-11-2016, 04:17 AM
Status: "I'm travelling at the speed of light." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
1,233 posts, read 608,546 times
Reputation: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Third world strongman? Odd how he seems to be chummy with Putin, or maybe that's just how hostile media presents him. I was thinking about Mordant's comment above and about continued support even with some Republicans taking my advice and dropping him so as to hopefully eject the loonies and get back a credible and electable GOP.

You know what it is about Trump that I even find myself responding to? He's a stand -up comic. He's like a Bill Burr who stands up there and says what we'd all like to say, but we can't because of PC. He's refreshing; he's catharsis, he's funny, he's entertaining. What he isn't is fit for the presidency.
I would take Putin over Trump any day. Putin is a tough, seasoned politician who cares the interests of his country first (which the enemy media naturally does not like). Trump is just what you said - a stand-up comic.
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Old 10-11-2016, 07:37 AM
 
39,207 posts, read 10,887,543 times
Reputation: 5096
Putin is shrewd and ... I was going to say ruthless, but not quite. he knows where to push and where to hold back. Trump knows nothing but how to be a con -man. He is the cannier of the three dunces fielded by the the lunatics who have been running the Republican party since the unexpected success of Reagan (thanks to Gorbachev, not Reagan) led to the unexpected calamity of Dubhya.

We all thought we'd get shot of the dictators (and Al Quaids in the process) introduce democracy to Arab countries that had never had it and they would be grateful to us.

Well, Though I loathe Bush and Blair for dragging us into a war based on a trio of logical fallacies (1), I never dreamed any more than they did what a deadly mess it would lead to. But the US learned its' lesson and the unbelievable Sarah Palin bombed and I trust that just fielding a comic after a joke won't work the oracle.

I mean ...Pence for Frith's sake! I could forgive him for attacking evolution, but to display such utter ignorance of what he was talking about is beyond excuse.

Eh what?...Oh yes! What I was going to say was that, while I have no love for born -again Christians, I would take Jimmy Carter over Putin, never mind Trump or either of the Bushes.

(1)
(a) Just because there is no sound evidence of WMD, doesn't mean there aren't any.(reversal of burden of proof)
(b) If you don't support the war on Saddam, you must be in favour of Saddam. (fallacy of undistributed middle or false dichotomy)
(c) Saddam is a threat because he was behind 9/11 (just Dubhya being appallingly stupid)

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-11-2016 at 07:57 AM.. Reason: grammar!
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,352,569 times
Reputation: 2613
...and now Farage becomes Trump's advisor. Ye gods!
Trump asks Nigel Farage to help sharpen up debating skills for Hillary Clinton | Daily Mail Online

'The fate of all mankind I see is in the hands of fools.'
Epitaph -
King Crimson.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,574 posts, read 21,729,972 times
Reputation: 18126
And now for a Tuesday morning entertainment break.

Genius Matches Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton's Lips to '(I've Had) The Time of My Life'
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Dayton, Akron-Canton in Ohio
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