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Old 07-10-2013, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,405 posts, read 12,148,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olamm View Post
By proselytizing it will convince you to convert and believe?
Olamm, please don't embarrass yourself...no one here is going to convert and believe.
Be happy and talk to people who want to listen to you.
It will show wisdom...lest the dogs trample you....tap the dust off your feet and go
to where your words are welcomed...you're not doing yourself or Jesus
any favors here.

He would and did walk away...why...because he was a smart cookie.

 
Old 07-10-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,454,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olamm View Post
By proselytizing it will convince you to convert and believe?
No, but it can get YOU banned. Again.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,882 posts, read 31,776,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olamm View Post
Hitler was baptised and was Christian in his childhood and young adult, but then he later rejected his faith and became an atheist. He died as an atheist. What may be confusing is that he both was pro and against Christianity. A true Christian will not talk bs about Christianity, God and Jesus like Hitler did numerous times.
I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so

[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people......Adolf Hitler
 
Old 07-10-2013, 02:11 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,996,068 times
Reputation: 1027
Default This thread is out of control

Enough about Hitler already. This topic has been beaten to death. This thread serves no purpose and is out of control ....
 
Old 07-10-2013, 02:14 PM
 
39,162 posts, read 10,865,034 times
Reputation: 5091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olamm View Post
You don't have any other better answer to me do you? This is not proselytizing. I answered a question that someone was asking me to provide evidence of the existence of Christ.
Take it as a friendly warning not to slip over the line from just asking us why we don't ,accept the Christian view of Jesus to trying to tell us that we should have more faith.

I don't think anyone here minds explaining why we do not buy it that there is sound evidence for the Gospel Jesus. Trying to deny the holocaust or questioning the accounts of the crusades or asking how everything was created is irrelevant. The evidence for the Holocaust and the crusades is pretty convincing and nobody would have to change their religion if it wasn't.

And Hitler was never atheist. While he regarded Christianity with contempt and would tolerate them so long as they did not challenge his authority, he believed in God and in Jesus to. He was convinced that he was doing God's work and right at the end, when Roosevelt suddenly died, Goebbels called him to say 'God has not abandoned us'.

I have a stock response to the 'Tacitus, Suetonius Josephus ..' claim

The historical evidence
Historical evidence for Jesus? Apart from the New Testament there is no independent confirmation that the Jesus of the gospels ever existed.
Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius

Tacitus and Seutonius tell us about the Christians, sure. They don't exactly confirm Jesus. The evidence is that the mention in Josephus' "Jewish war" is a later addition. It is clumsily inserted between two unrelated
events, it reads like the work of a Christian believer, which Josephus wasn't, it is similar to the 'potted biography in Luke (24.19-20) and the church fathers never mention it before the 3rd century.

The other historians are of no help in establishing the historicity of Jesus. I've done the research and looked at all the claims for 'documentary evidence of Jesus' and the only ones that even look like it are Seutonius, Tacitus and Josephus. Philo, who was the 'other' Jewish historian, doesn't mention Jesus.

Regarding Thallus, (later 1st c) he did not appear to refer to Jesus. Apparently he mentions an eclipse of the sun which Julius Africanus (c221 AD) suggested that this might have been the darkness at the crucifixion. Julius Africanus, in fact quotes Thallus. Phlegon, only comments on Thallus' eclipse to say it could not have been on Passover. In fact he was refuting the claim. Obviously none of these have any bearing on the historicity of Jesus.

Mara Bar-Serapion, again only recounts what was apparently the Christian view - that the Jews lost the jewish war as God's punishment because they executed Jesus. It is still just recounting the Christian view and is not an independent historical reference. Also some claim that this letter might be anything up to 3rd century in date.

Lucian of Samosata, like Tacitus, only mentions the Christians and their beliefs. I can agree that at a relatively early time it was known that the Christians believed that their 'sage' who 'introduced their novel rites'
was crucified. That does not quite add up to a historical source for Jesus, though. It is perhaps significant - I'm accepting this - that details of the Jesus story were apparently circulating in the later 1st century, but then we did have Christian authorities at tha time, Origen for example. None of these knew Jesus any better than Paul did, which was not at all.

Calus Plinius Secundus. Pliny the younger, of course, only writes about how to deal with Christians. It says nothing about a historical Jesus.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,882 posts, read 31,776,624 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
Enough about Hitler already. This topic has been beaten to death. This thread serves no purpose and is out of control ....
So why are you posting in it?
 
Old 07-10-2013, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,835,555 times
Reputation: 11318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olamm View Post
By proselytizing it will convince you to convert and believe?
As has been stated and linked several times, it's against the TOS.
 
Old 07-10-2013, 03:37 PM
 
7,813 posts, read 10,706,898 times
Reputation: 3443
Per Administrator's Sticky, inappropriate thread for this subforum.


THREAD CLOSED.

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