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View Poll Results: What type of non-believer are you?
Intellectual Atheist/Agnostics (IAA) 27 52.94%
Activist Atheist/Agnostics (AAA) 3 5.88%
Non-theists 10 19.61%
Seeker Agnostics (SA) 3 5.88%
Ritual Atheist/Agnostics (RAA) 2 3.92%
Antitheists 6 11.76%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-16-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,853 posts, read 18,557,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
Those may not have been your assumptions, but you stated (below) that you suspected that they were valid. And then you compared it to activist christian fundamentalists (who actually hold specific beliefs about god and take their position based on the bible). Atheists, who lack a belief in god, do not have any "atheistic position" (since there is no such thing) to act upon.
Generally they are valid in that they probably do represent what you would discover about the political positions of atheists on the listed issues. You indicated that you are an atheist who is anti abortion, so that would represent an exception since clearly the majority of opposition to abortion comes from organized religious groups. Were we to find an activist Christian fundamentalist who was pro choice, we would have another exception but the generalization would remain valid.

I recall in 1972 there was some black guy running around as chairman of "Blacks for Wallace", but that he was real doesn't dislodge the generalization that among the candidates, George Wallace would have been the last choice for African American voters in 1972.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,885,877 times
Reputation: 7441
Another attempt at turning non belief into a belief. Lol
For the hundreth time atheism is not nor cannot be a religon. I wonder if the kids doing the research are Theists? Do we know? I'm curious.

There are as many types of atheists as there are people. This is because atheist are just people who don't talk to the sky.
One thing defines atheists - no Theism. That is it, it's really a no brainer. I do not get along with all atheists nor do I welcome them all because they are atheists.
Next up, catagories of people who don't like ice cream. Then finally we cover the personalities of people against war. Surprisingly these people fall into different categories. Lol
Atheists - united by nothing - stand together, it's got a ring to it.

Last edited by PoppySead; 07-16-2013 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,191 posts, read 9,077,440 times
Reputation: 6079
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
For the hundreth time atheism is not nor cannot be a religion. Why Theists desire it to be is beyond me.
They are just trying to understand it in terms they are familiar with. They have, by and large, navigated a thicket of denominations and "isms" to settle on where they are (or at least they see their "ism" as correct and the others as incorrect) so they just automatically lump us in with all the other "wrong" religions / denominations / belief systems.

This is encouraged by most religion's tendency to want uncritical submission to their assertions, and uncritical rejection of "the other". Also religion's anti-intellectual bent ... thinking and faith don't go together.

In fairness, one has to admit that part of the problem is that there's a not-unreasonable assumption / simplification that it would be human nature to make.

Theism = belief in god(s)
Atheism = disbelief in god(s)

There seems to be an implied symmetry here ... a theist is only familiar with theism, which they also tend to see as just their "correct" branch of theism, and therefore as a holistic system of prescribed beliefs; the natural assumption is that atheism is therefore a similarly elaborate system that negates or opposes their chosen system. The more conservative, literalist and parochial the theist, the less that they can get their minds around the idea that a belief system could be so stunningly simple and un-prescriptive and free. That a label could be about belief and literally nothing else, that an individual could be truly free to choose their ethics, morality, beliefs and values in all other respects. It's just not something they have experience with. In fact it is likely something they have been warned against, in a "that way lies madness" fashion.

The symmetry is not between two religions that are opposite, but between a belief and a disbelief. The theist cannot separate their belief from their traditions, rituals, taboos, laws, customs, therefore they can't conceive that the unbelief position isn't barnacled with traditions, rituals, taboos, laws or customs. It's quite beyond the pale to them. Indeed, more than one theist has told me that all they see when they are forced to consider unbelief, is chaos, disorder, mayhem, lostness, terror, despair, basically their world flying apart.

That I left the faith years ago and god has not struck me dead, I have not gone insane, become depraved, and have in fact prospered as never before ... this is something that just can't and won't compute. So I must simply be deceived and confused by a false system, there must still be hope for me to be touched by the love of god and see the light and return to the "correct" system of believing and living and forsake my "incorrect" system.

What they don't see is that when belief ends the system falls away. The system is a giant superstructure built on nothing more than unconsidered and unsubstantiatable beliefs. It isn't replaced by anything, it is just gone.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,861 posts, read 3,782,423 times
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It doesn't really help matters when this very forum 'Atheism and Agnosticism' is listed as a subsection under 'Religion and Spirituality'. You can see how peoples thinking might be misled by that.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,191 posts, read 9,077,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
It doesn't really help matters when this very forum 'Atheism and Agnosticism' is listed as a subsection under 'Religion and Spirituality'. You can see how peoples thinking might be misled by that.
That is a good point, however, it's one of those deals, I think, where if an untruth is repeated often enough it becomes true in a sense. If anyone wanted to explore or debate atheism they would probably never find the A&A forum if it weren't under R&S. Maybe what it should be is:

General Forums > Metaphysics > Philosophy
General Forums > Metaphysics > Religion & Spirituality (under which remains Christianity, Buddhism, etc)
General Forums > Metaphysics > Atheism & Agnosticism

I think many religious people would be insulted, though, to be on the same level with philosophy.
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:22 PM
 
1,112 posts, read 1,024,827 times
Reputation: 414
They left out a number of Atheist categories:

Sporty-Atheist - This type of atheist likes to consume large amounts of beer and hot dogs while attending college and pro-sporting events

Shopaholic Atheist- This type of atheist likes to spend an exorbitant amount of time and money shopping for things they don't really need. It appears that a disproportionate number of atheist women make up this category.

Reality-TV Atheist-
This type of atheist spends an inordinate amount of time watching reality shows on TV. It appears that their diet consists mainly of mindless drivel such as Honey Boo Boo, Real World, the Bachelor, and American Idol.

Everyday Atheist
- This type of atheist goes to work, sleeps, eats, plays on the computer, spends time with the family, gives to charity, and poops.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:22 PM
 
4,487 posts, read 4,365,915 times
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I didn't see Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Magic User Atheist listed.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,885,877 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
They are just trying to understand it in terms they are familiar with. They have, by and large, navigated a thicket of denominations and "isms" to settle on where they are (or at least they see their "ism" as correct and the others as incorrect) so they just automatically lump us in with all the other "wrong" religions / denominations / belief systems.

This is encouraged by most religion's tendency to want uncritical submission to their assertions, and uncritical rejection of "the other". Also religion's anti-intellectual bent ... thinking and faith don't go together.

In fairness, one has to admit that part of the problem is that there's a not-unreasonable assumption / simplification that it would be human nature to make.

Theism = belief in god(s)
Atheism = disbelief in god(s)

There seems to be an implied symmetry here ... a theist is only familiar with theism, which they also tend to see as just their "correct" branch of theism, and therefore as a holistic system of prescribed beliefs; the natural assumption is that atheism is therefore a similarly elaborate system that negates or opposes their chosen system. The more conservative, literalist and parochial the theist, the less that they can get their minds around the idea that a belief system could be so stunningly simple and un-prescriptive and free. That a label could be about belief and literally nothing else, that an individual could be truly free to choose their ethics, morality, beliefs and values in all other respects. It's just not something they have experience with. In fact it is likely something they have been warned against, in a "that way lies madness" fashion.

The symmetry is not between two religions that are opposite, but between a belief and a disbelief. The theist cannot separate their belief from their traditions, rituals, taboos, laws, customs, therefore they can't conceive that the unbelief position isn't barnacled with traditions, rituals, taboos, laws or customs. It's quite beyond the pale to them. Indeed, more than one theist has told me that all they see when they are forced to consider unbelief, is chaos, disorder, mayhem, lostness, terror, despair, basically their world flying apart.

That I left the faith years ago and god has not struck me dead, I have not gone insane, become depraved, and have in fact prospered as never before ... this is something that just can't and won't compute. So I must simply be deceived and confused by a false system, there must still be hope for me to be touched by the love of god and see the light and return to the "correct" system of believing and living and forsake my "incorrect" system.

What they don't see is that when belief ends the system falls away. The system is a giant superstructure built on nothing more than unconsidered and unsubstantiatable beliefs. It isn't replaced by anything, it is just gone.
Yes, indeed. Theists have grouped because their beliefs differ, they argue the truth of it all with each other under one blanket God. IMO, as you've stated, one world religion would be nice. I'd welcome an end to their thousand year feud, if only one would give in. But alas, with the "one true God" rule I don't see that happening.

Ah, geez ya know I just refuse to let them lump non believers into that. They desire a fight among us like they deal with. Different "types" of atheists fighting for the right kind of non belief. When in reality non believers have no mission, no flock to gather, no right or wrong type of non believer. It's such a non issue, it gets me when made an issue. It's just so ridiculous. IMO.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,885,877 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
It doesn't really help matters when this very forum 'Atheism and Agnosticism' is listed as a subsection under 'Religion and Spirituality'. You can see how peoples thinking might be misled by that.
Well, it's a little "what came first the chicken or the egg" reality. Who we offend is what's determining our placement. We tic off the Theists so here we are. It makes for a lively forum. lol

But yes, we've been categorized by Theists, or else we wouldn't even have a movement. We turned our back on God after all, I believe he is the largest "big guy" in the business. It's never been a popular move.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,885,877 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
They left out a number of Atheist categories:

Sporty-Atheist - This type of atheist likes to consume large amounts of beer and hot dogs while attending college and pro-sporting events

Shopaholic Atheist- This type of atheist likes to spend an exorbitant amount of time and money shopping for things they don't really need. It appears that a disproportionate number of atheist women make up this category.

Reality-TV Atheist-
This type of atheist spends an inordinate amount of time watching reality shows on TV. It appears that their diet consists mainly of mindless drivel such as Honey Boo Boo, Real World, the Bachelor, and American Idol.

Everyday Atheist
- This type of atheist goes to work, sleeps, eats, plays on the computer, spends time with the family, gives to charity, and poops.
I think I fall 1/2 way between the shopaholic atheist and the everyday atheist. I'd like to add a sprinkle of the half elf neutral atheists as well seeing I love elves.
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