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Old 07-28-2013, 11:06 AM
 
220 posts, read 274,032 times
Reputation: 169

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Here's something that tickles me about most atheists I know: they purport to hold some kind of intelligent superiority over 'believers', often mocking them and trolling them on the internet or in person. Believers are stupid because the vehemently support and worship some invisible guy in the clouds. How stupid are they, right? Lets spend all this time and energy deriding them for it. My Facebook is riddled with these messages on a daily basis. Another major complaint of my Atheist friends is that they are sick and tired of the religious and their annoying yet feeble attempts at shoving religion down our throats, especially through a bombardment of proselytizing (Mormons and Jehovas Witnesses knocking on doors, endless cable TV shows of whacky religions sermons, etc).

Here's the thing though. Atheists (of these kind) are just like the people they make fun of. They proselyte using social media and books, they form groups and hold meetings to discuss Atheism, (sounds like church to me) and they are very much in your face about it. The only difference between religious freaks and atheist freaks are that religious freaks claim to have a moral and spiritual superiority over atheists, and atheists freaks claim to have intellectual superiority over believers. Yet they both claim to have something the other does not. Silly.

As an agnostic, both are wrong. Both sides despise the other even though they are mirror images of each other.

Doesn't it make the most logical sense to make no claim at all? Maybe there is a God, maybe their isn't. There's no way to say either way. I don't care if you believe in a God, I don't care if you don't. I don't mind religious symbols in our schools and government, because I understand why they're there. Doesn't bother me. And I also understand that sometimes its taken too far and needs to be balanced. But why all the fuss over who is right, who is wrong, who is smart and who is dumb? Does it really matter?

Atheists aren't immoral and the religious aren't dumb. How hard is it to just admit that and try to find peace and understanding with one another?

/rant off

 
Old 07-28-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,488 posts, read 1,228,869 times
Reputation: 632
neuroscience already disprove the notion of god. the claim that atheists and religious wackos are the same is a disgusting slander and is NOT an argument
 
Old 07-28-2013, 12:11 PM
 
220 posts, read 274,032 times
Reputation: 169
It's not an argument, it's an observation. Which is why I stated, "I see..". This eludes to an opinion, not a statement of fact.

Learn to tell the difference next time, kid.

And I know you find it disgusting because you're an atheist, and as such, you are offended by the notion of being seen as equally silly and ridiculous as a whacky theist, which I do. Again, this is not an argument. Just my opinion and observation.
 
Old 07-28-2013, 12:18 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,876,289 times
Reputation: 16148
Perhaps the atheists you know are just d bags. They would be that way regardless of their belief/non-belief in a god.
 
Old 07-28-2013, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,331 posts, read 18,657,581 times
Reputation: 18803
If we came upon something inexplicable and you offered an explanation for it which struck me as utterly preposterous, I could disbelieve your explanation without being required to offer one of my own.

Do I know the origin of the cosmos? I surely do not. Do I believe the explanations offered by the religious? I do not, I see no reason to think that those explanations have any worth, so, I do not believe them. In a like manner, if someone threatened you with a voodoo curse, would you take it seriously and feel that you were in any actual danger from this? If you disbelieved in the power of voodoo, are you suddenly on the same level as the person who believes in it? Or are you obligated to take the position "Well, I'm not sure, maybe it works, maybe it does not."?


Clearly you do not understand the nature of atheism, but this absence of understanding does not seem to have served as any sort of brake on your issuing inflammatory opinions about it.
 
Old 07-28-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
1,488 posts, read 1,228,869 times
Reputation: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by DazedandAmused View Post
It's not an argument, it's an observation. Which is why I stated, "I see..". This eludes to an opinion, not a statement of fact.

Learn to tell the difference next time, kid.

And I know you find it disgusting because you're an atheist, and as such, you are offended by the notion of being seen as equally silly and ridiculous as a whacky theist, which I do. Again, this is not an argument. Just my opinion and observation.

I am an adult not a kid I am probably older than you and I will not be addressed in this condescending manner. there is not comparison between theists and athiests. theists expect people to believe in their neurological fantasy using threats of hell fire, going to into politics to try pass laws forcing their fantasy on the public while atheists don't care what other people believe and don't want their tax dollars to fund other people's fantasy.
 
Old 07-28-2013, 12:40 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,381 posts, read 19,648,547 times
Reputation: 13168
Quote:
Originally Posted by DazedandAmused View Post
Doesn't it make the most logical sense to make no claim at all? Maybe there is a God, maybe their isn't. There's no way to say either way.
The person making the claim for the existence of something has the burden of proof or evidence.

An atheist doesn't believe in God because there is no proof or evidence. So, that is the neutral position.
 
Old 07-28-2013, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,198 posts, read 9,120,967 times
Reputation: 6081
D & A, I doubt you have many atheist "friends", given that you refer to them as "freaks". Thus making your polemic as nasty as the theists and atheists you deride. Now that everyone has had a dump taken on them, what has been accomplished? A lot of heat and not much light, basically.

That said, a few points:

Atheism is a null proposition, so we have nothing to proselytize to. We encourage deconversions, but not to simply "reconvert" them to something else. What theists and some agnostics have trouble understanding is that we offer nothing to take the place of theism, other than cold, naked reality.

A small percentage of atheists belong to overtly atheist organizations for the purpose of things like legal change and the like, but these can scarcely be characterized as a church or some sort of "anti-church", either ideologically or in terms of what proportion of atheists are represented. In some communities there may be a debate or bull session in the back of a coffee shop which tends to attract freethinkers, but the whole principle of free thought is not to impose any dogma. So again, doesn't "look like" church.

I recall reading someplace or other about an atheist chaplain in the military who exists for the purpose of "marrying and burying" people and counseling from an atheist perspective; this is rare and I tend to regard it as more the filling of organizational power vacuums than there being any actual need. For the vast majority of us, secular alternative exist that are plenty adequate -- like a justice of the peace for marriages or mental health professionals for mental and personal issues.

I don't know of any atheist who claims to have anything a theist does not other than a generally more honest and accurate view of reality. I certainly can't imagine an atheist caring whether someone wants to be a theist so long as they don't interfere with our right to be atheists. We differ among ourselves on how much of a real problem that is.

Finally, your perpetuate the fallacy that agnosticism is a distinct "third position" when in fact it is a position about what is or is not knowable about god(s), as distinct from theism and atheism, which are statements of (un)belief in god(s). I am an agnostic atheist. My beliefs are informed by what is likely to be true and by where available evidence leads me. But I do not claim absolute knowledge nor do I claim to be able to disprove theism. I actually claim that I don't know, can't know, but on the other hand I also see no evidence so my default is one of unbelief and I regard the burden of proof to be on theists.
 
Old 07-28-2013, 06:41 PM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 769,968 times
Reputation: 1761
Radial Agnosticism? I'm sorry, but the atheism you're describing, one that despises believers and considers them to be ignorant is not the atheism I follow. None of my friends who are atheists feel that way either. Not that they aren't out there, apparently you've befriended a few. I have no problems with anyone's religious symbolism, I may not assign the same value as others do but some if it is quite artistic and beautiful. What with peer pressure and bullying being what it is in today's world I think we should agree with the Supreme Court and keep our schools free from such religious symbolism. If you want to watch TV sermons and evangelists, go ahead, I have a remote control, but please stop blurring out the topless women on the Travel Channel beach shows.

It would be great if, as you say, we could all live in peace and understanding. It could start with believers and atheists AND agnostics not referring to their fellow humans as whackos and freaks.
 
Old 07-28-2013, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Texas
35,379 posts, read 19,392,811 times
Reputation: 21008
Smile Fellas...

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