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Old 08-07-2013, 06:59 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,305 posts, read 19,585,657 times
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I'm thinking that the OP must be pretty disappointed in not having the chance to confront any hardcore, radical atheist on here who fits the OP's description.

All that OP came across here are people who merely disbelieve because of a lack of evidence. Wow.. what a let down that must be!
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:43 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,026,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I'm thinking that the OP must be pretty disappointed in not having the chance to confront any hardcore, radical atheist on here who fits the OP's description.

All that OP came across here are people who merely disbelieve because of a lack of evidence. Wow.. what a let down that must be!
Not to mention that the op is an atheist and doesn't even realize it!
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,387 posts, read 2,167,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
Not to mention that the op is an atheist and doesn't even realize it!
Ha! I tried to get him to fess up but he ran away and avoided questions instead.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,135 posts, read 2,791,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
It sounds like you may be confused about agnosticism. Agnosticism is not some kind of third choice in between belief and non-belief. Agnosticism does not even address "belief", it addresses "knowledge". On the spectrum of belief, there are only 2 choices. You eithetr have a belief in god, or you don't. There is no such thing as fence sitting regarding whether or not you have a belief. The presence of a belief in a godand the absence of a belief in a god exhaust all of the possibilities. Let's say someone asked you the question "do you believe in god."? If you cannot answer affirmatively "yes, I believe in god", then you are by definition an atheist in regards to belief. You still can claim that you do not "know" whether or not god exists (agnostic), but you additionally would currently be without a belief in one (atheist). That doesn't mean that you don't think gods are "possible", just that you do not currently actively believe in any particular god. All agnostics either have a belief in god (theist/deist) or they don't (atheist). You don't have to choose to be an atheist, or purposely claim the title of atheist, to be one by definition.

Agnosticism does not say "I don't know if I believe in a god." It says "I believe that god cannot be known". All agnostics still either have a belief in god or not despite their understanding that gods cannot be known. Agnostic theists/deists believe in god despite acknowledging that gods cannot be known. That is why they call it “faith”. Whereas, agnostic atheists acknowledge that gods cannot be known and therefore withhold belief in any until such time as they are presented with any convincing evidence which would make them believe in one.

Here is a link which may describe it better:

Atheism vs. Agnosticism: What's the Difference Between Atheism and Agnosticism?
What some of you don't seem to understand, no matter how many times you write page long diatribes trying to "explain" the definitions.....is, regardless of what the "dictionary" definitions of Atheist VS Agnostic may be, the fact is that by and large, most of the general public uses definitions closer to mine.
See, people I talk to on the subject feel that being Agnostic in this day and age often brings with it not only a lack of knowledge or uncertainty of belief about the existence of a higher power but also a lack of caring about the subject of existence VS non existence.

Many people just have a general lack of enthusiasm on the subject all together but that does not necessarily make them Atheists.... because in order to actively label oneself as an Atheist you have to have a certain degree of passion about your non belief just as the devout have to have passion about their faith.
And many of us who consider ourselves Agnostic simply lack that passion in either direction.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:32 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,868,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
I'm possibly the worlds biggest Agnostic, so I guess it's easy for me to see both sides of the equation of whether or not to believe in God (any God, not just Christian).

To me, being Agnostic means that I am aware of what a small, insignificant creature that I am in the scope of space and time and that it would be incredibly presumptuous and arrogant of me to have an attitude that there is absolutely no higher power than myself in all the cosmos.
On the other hand, every religion of the world thinks that their view is the only right one and that everyone else on the planet is doomed, dammed or whatever.

So both of the extreme views on either side are just as arrogant and ignorant as the other....

Now, I can understand that the devout are motivated by their faith, but I've always wondered what motivates hardcore type Atheists to be so adamant in demanding a lack of exposure to any religious references or symbols in their daily lives.
What I'm talking about here are the Freedom From Religion Foundation types who want to sue somebody every time a nativity scene goes up at Christmas time and lobbying to get "in God we trust" removed from currency etc.

Do you really have nothing better to do?

Because to me, you are just as bad as the morons from the Westboro Baptist Church.
But that's exactly it. My dad's a preacher, and he has some book in his shelf, I forget that it's called but I can find it by sight, that shows a picture of screaming raging fundamentalists. And then I looks at the extreme atheist, out to prove everyone wrong, and it concludes both are suffering from terminal cases of fundamentalism, which rather than religion or lack thereof, is the actual problem.

But neither groups have anything on Islam, which has currently become so out of control fanatical, that they even pissed off the Buddhists. Buddhism is not good enough at fighting to defend itself, we really need to send in these other two to this area, to basically put aside their differences for a few minutes to drive them back.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,135 posts, read 2,791,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I'm thinking that the OP must be pretty disappointed in not having the chance to confront any hardcore, radical atheist on here who fits the OP's description.

All that OP came across here are people who merely disbelieve because of a lack of evidence. Wow.. what a let down that must be!

As previously explained: (a term many of you seem to be incredibly fond of)

I originally posted this in the Politics and Other Controversies forum, knowing that I would probably reach more of the type of people that I was directing the question at (at least in terms of attitudes).

But the Moderators made me move it here.....so it is what it is, where it is.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,135 posts, read 2,791,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
The definitions I presented are actual definitions not opinions. Words have definitive meanings. If they didn't, language would be pointless. Sorry sir, you just can't make words fit what you want them to fit.
The words represent a concept, and as far as I know there is nothing written in stone about how I can choose to define a concept, just because you choose to agree with Miriam Webster's definition of the concept does not mean I have to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
If you really think objecting to religious displays on public property is just as bad as picketing the funerals of dead soldiers in front of their loved ones, you have no moral compass to fix.
Objection to public displays of religion is one thing.....being so adamant about it that you feel it necessary to ruin other peoples Holidays by dragging them into court over it is another.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:31 AM
 
16,105 posts, read 17,923,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
The words represent a concept, and as far as I know there is nothing written in stone about how I can choose to define a concept, just because you choose to agree with Miriam Webster's definition of the concept does not mean I have to.

You know if everyone defines words differently, there can be no actual conversation about anything.


Objection to public displays of religion is one thing.....being so adamant about it that you feel it necessary to ruin other peoples Holidays by dragging them into court over it is another.
I don't think most atheists object to *public displays* of religion. We object to having our taxes pay for them. You can easily display your religious *art* on the grounds outside your church (public display, since anyone walking or driving by can see it). Private museums can have nativities and the public can go see that.
You cannot, however, place your symbols on the grounds at city hall or the courthouse. Those are venues where the Constitution prohibits them.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,135 posts, read 2,791,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post

You know if everyone defines words differently, there can be no actual conversation about anything.

You are of course correct, at least about the definition of some words.
Words that describe tangible things like rocks, stars, buses, eyeballs etc need to have a rather narrow definition.
However the English language is full of words that can have different meanings to different people in different contexts.

The words Agnostic and Atheist describe something less tangible.....concepts.
Concepts are made up of ideas, thoughts and opinions and therefore are harder to put a definitive lock on their meanings to all people in all situations.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:26 AM
 
7,378 posts, read 6,737,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
You are of course correct, at least about the definition of some words.
Words that describe tangible things like rocks, stars, buses, eyeballs etc need to have a rather narrow definition.
However the English language is full of words that can have different meanings to different people in different contexts.

The words Agnostic and Atheist describe something less tangible.....concepts.
Concepts are made up of ideas, thoughts and opinions and therefore are harder to put a definitive lock on their meanings to all people in all situations.
Actually no. Atheist is the opposite of theist. Either you have belief in a god or you don't. Black or white, no gray area. Agnostic is the opposite of gnostic. Either you have knowledge or you don't. Agnostic and Atheist are independent of one another and unrelated.
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