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Old 08-06-2013, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,089 posts, read 2,771,334 times
Reputation: 4344

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
No sir, if you're going to change the meaning of words to suit your own personal purpose than nothing you say can be deemed worthwhile or valid in any context. This country being free has nothing to do with you attempting to create your own "facts". You have a right to your own beliefs not your own facts (definitions). You need to find a word that actually fits..I think "confused" would be better suited in this case.
Neither my opinions nor your opinions on this subject are based in fact, they are just opinions.

You are basing your definitions on your (and other atheists) opinions, that does not make them facts.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:39 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,936,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
If you make a comment regarding atheism that is intelligent and makes sense- some atheists might just censor you. Some of them have an agenda similar to Christian extremists who want to recruit those to a "cause"
Lots of weasel words in here and no actual quotes from the atheists in question. I wonder why that might be.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:50 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,936,605 times
Reputation: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Moderator cut: Orphaned response
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
So both of the extreme views on either side are just as arrogant and ignorant as the other....
Quote:
Do you really have nothing better to do?

Because to me, you are just as bad as the morons from the Westboro Baptist Church.
You were saying something about attitudes?

Last edited by june 7th; 08-07-2013 at 05:14 AM..
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,089 posts, read 2,771,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
How did this thread start out. Oh yeah, something like this :




You were saying something about attitudes?
Note the title of the thread....those statements are directed to "hardcore" or extreme type Atheists, not all Atheists.
I make similar comments to extreme Bible thumpers because both extremes are equally ridiculous to me.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:57 AM
 
39,029 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
Note the title of the thread....those statements are directed to "hardcore" or extreme type Atheists, not all Atheists.
I make similar comments to extreme Bible thumpers because both extremes are equally ridiculous to me.
As was explained, extreme or hardcore is only the method. The rationale is what matters. And that comes down (as explained) to our beef with organized religion rather than with agnostics or deists.

Also as explained, while I may use different methods, ALL the methods used by the hardcore and militant atheists of which I count myself one are justified by the aim. And that is justified by atheism having a sound rationale and organized religion not.

so, what this means is that your claim to have addressed your remarks to some supposed looney extreme of atheism with which we would not want want to be associated misfires, because atheist militants R us and your remarks are addressed to most of those who count ourselves as such.

I may say that I regard Westboro as no different from the mainstream of organized religion. In fact, I find them rather refreshing as they tell it like it says in the Bible, not watered down so as not to offend. They polemics against gays is no different from the ongoing campaign against gay marriage and so on and their stridency is just a matter of visibility.

I must add that I cannot make head nor tail of their picketing of servicemens' funerals and that does seem to be a piece of whacky theology that does make them looney religious extremists.

However, the extreme atheists do not have some off -the wall theology - they have only the same worldview we goddless pondslime all have. Non - belief in gods and an economy size beef with interfering, arrogant, in yore face evangelizing we are entitled to tell you what to do organized religion.

I do hope that is straightening out a few apparent misconceptions about atheism and militancy that you seem to have.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: The Big O
590 posts, read 663,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
How did this thread start out. Oh yeah, something like this :




You were saying something about attitudes?
This! Thank you.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:26 AM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 765,062 times
Reputation: 1761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
Note the title of the thread....those statements are directed to "hardcore" or extreme type Atheists, not all Atheists.
I make similar comments to extreme Bible thumpers because both extremes are equally ridiculous to me.
Unfortunately like the kid poking the bear with a stick through the bars at the zoo . . . you kept looking for a bigger stick. It was explained to you that atheists simply do not believe in god, and that 99% of athiests are not hardcore radicals like you were looking for. We're not looking to push our non-beliefs and we have no agenda. So you got a bigger stick, you went looking to redefine atheism to match your narrow vision. You allow believers by your own words to waiver and express doubt but seem dumbfounded that an atheist could say anything similar. You referred to them as trying to be agnostic atheists and proclaimed that an oxymoron. If you allow for even the slightest possibility you can not be an atheist by your words. If on the other hand you do not believe there is any chance of a deity you can call yourself an athesit but you must be hardcore.

You have become as radical and constaining in defining doubt, possibility and not being sure as The Westboro folks have become in their bible interptretation.

And while I'm on it since you mentioned the issue seems to be mainly directed towards Chritianity? Do I really need to explain to you that of course there is not going to be much discussion in the Islamic world as to whether or not a deity exists? Do you not realize that discussions like this can only happen in countries that allow the freedom to discuss and allow people to believe or not. Those countires are historically Christian. A few hundred years ago you wouldn't have been able to discuss atheism anywhere. As far as any contention with Christians, I live and let live. Watch your shows, go to church, it's your life, do with it as you please. In my atheism I trully believe we all have only this one organic life, I am not going to tell anyone how to spend it. Mangers and menorahs on public land, sure go ahead as long as I have my brightly lit tree. I can't see fighting over anything that makes people happy, as long as my tax dollars aren't paying for it. "In God We Trust", let's be honest, it's just a saying. I could care less, doesn't make me any less conviced there is no god, and seriously it's not like the folks printing all the money are particularly righteous. Sure as hell isn't going to make me give it back.

As I've said in other posts, I draw my line in the sand at the school door. Creationism, Intelligent Design, prayer. As is often the case the people in the majority will try to push an agenda, but in this case 'Christians' as we all know do not all come in one flavor, so luckily we don't have to hear about the dinosaurs on Noah's Ark. There's also a line outside City Hall, no religion should be allowed to define marriage by their beliefs, No religion has the right to tell the state who can and can not marry. No elected official should be searching for guidance beyond their state constitution - Atheist straight guy talking!

So there are different types of Christians, there are secular and strict Muslims, Orthodox and reformed Jews, believers of varying levels of commitment, agnostics with different levels of uncertainty. Why is it so important to you to pigeonhole atheism in to your singular definition of "undeniable proof of non-existence" and "denies any possibility of existence"? Believers and agnostics can vary, fluctuate, flip and fluster and hedge their bets. Atheists have but one option?

I know you say this is directed towards hardcore atheists and "not all atheists" but you then go on to define atheism as you interpret it.

Happy now? You poked the bear, I'm going back in to hibernation for now. Hopefully someday you can trully learn to live and let live and not worry so much about what everyone else is doing.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:36 AM
 
7,378 posts, read 6,729,679 times
Reputation: 1252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
Note the title of the thread....those statements are directed to "hardcore" or extreme type Atheists, not all Atheists.
I make similar comments to extreme Bible thumpers because both extremes are equally ridiculous to me.
I do need to reconsider because I may have been a bit premature in my declaration of this thread as a fail. Actually it has indeed provided insight into how your old-fashioned preconceived notions can mischaracterize the new atheists.
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:03 PM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,936,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
Note the title of the thread....those statements are directed to "hardcore" or extreme type Atheists, not all Atheists.
So that makes it OK for you to call them morons? Please explain your reasoning here, it should be quite interesting.

Alternatively, think of the first thing to do when you find out you've dug yourself into a hole.

Either approach is fine by me.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:04 PM
 
1,112 posts, read 1,024,929 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jews for Jesus View Post
In God We Trust will never be removed from the currency and official motto. Congress and presidents have declared it as constitutional.
I think it is pretty ironic that christians WANT to have their god associated with filthy lucre. You would think they would be fighting to have it removed. I think it is very fitting and should stay on money.
Is toilet paper next?
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