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Old 08-11-2013, 07:57 PM
 
Location: In exile
534 posts, read 712,636 times
Reputation: 1384

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I mean seriously, who creates the Lucky Charms that I pray for each morning?

To me the magic that I take for granted each day is amazing. Who built the power plants that power this IPad I'm writing on? Who repairs my teeth, who held the surgeons knife when I was in the VA hospital?

A fellow human.

Where is the believer that would close their eyes and cross a busy intersection, trusting that their deity will keep them from harm?....no where. The believer depends on human abilities, yet claims truth in supernatural actions.

I'm waiting for the one person of faith to arrive that has the faith of a mustard seed; then belief may not be a self guided delusion.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,084,119 times
Reputation: 6079
I really love the recent addition to the atheist joke forum where a surgeon in the middle of an operation says, "I swear, if they say 'thank god', I'm putting this tumor back."

There is a very strong meme in conservative Christianity that says it is unthinkably arrogant to not "give god glory" for every little positive thing in your life. That it is almost blasphemous to say, for instance, "I was able to remove this tumor because of my years of education and experience and the many people who have performed scientific research and invented the various devices I use". Rather than, "god enabled me to do this, I am just his instrument". One might call this, the "without god I am nothing" meme.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,950 posts, read 18,569,815 times
Reputation: 18673
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I really love the recent addition to the atheist joke forum where a surgeon in the middle of an operation says, "I swear, if they say 'thank god', I'm putting this tumor back."

There is a very strong meme in conservative Christianity that says it is unthinkably arrogant to not "give god glory" for every little positive thing in your life. That it is almost blasphemous to say, for instance, "I was able to remove this tumor because of my years of education and experience and the many people who have performed scientific research and invented the various devices I use". Rather than, "god enabled me to do this, I am just his instrument". One might call this, the "without god I am nothing" meme.
Another way to view this dynamic is to consider the implications of the belief that the hand of god was responsible for a successful surgery. If there was a situation where a loved one needed a life saving operation, but there was no surgeon available, would it make sense to begin to curse god for not making me a surgeon? "Oh why didn't God make me his instrument?" Or extending the logic...."Why did Satan prevent me from becoming a surgeon?"

It is all part of the compartmentalizing of cause and effect, god helped Josh Hamilton hit the home run, but it was Hamilton alone who grounded into the double play. The frustrating aspect for atheists is that all of the pr in this deal is generated by the theists. Atheists do not announce that the the surgical procedure was a success because of their absence of belief in a higher power. Atheists rescued by paramedics thank the paramedics, not their own insight into cosmic mysteries. Athletes do not do interviews where they explain that their success was due to their talent and dedication to training, and had nothing at all to do with Jesus.

For atheists, events are just events, not things which need to be explained with cosmic covering theories.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Earth. For now.
1,225 posts, read 1,775,803 times
Reputation: 1243
Knowing one of the microbiologists employed at General Mills' HQ in Minneapolis, I can say that she performs more miracles than I've ever seen god perform. She was on the team that invented chocolate yogurt.

"Industry standard practice requires that all fillings and inclusions within yogurt be void of viable vegetative microorganisms, i.e. they must be commercially sterile, to achieve the desired safety and shelf life. Chocolate is made up of components that inherently contain relatively high microbiological loads. Chocolate cannot be made sterile without destroying the taste. Thus chocolate and yogurt are incompatible."
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,372,762 times
Reputation: 3735
Default Or, there's always THIS level of mature thinking....

Always and forever... it simply "boils down" (which btw, is a great way to negate all of God's little invasive micro-organisms in that technically impossible chocolate. Trust human science to have overcome it, when all God haddah do was just waggle-finger away th problem!...) to a Most Highly, Convenient and Selective but fundamentally impossible and irrational false belief. One which statistical analysis ALWAYS clearly shows us in not even quite as possible as an expected 50:50 outcome (Good-God-Ahmightly versus Pure Unmitigated Chance. (PS: that's how it always really works, but which Christian ever wants to hear that, eh?)

Seems that there are indeed manifest physical effects of insistent (but underhanded or stealthy) fundy tinkering in the outcome (like denying other VERY appropriate and potentially NEW but also potentially useful medical treatments for one's direly ill child because "God will take care of him/her, you just watch!") has it's predictable outcome: the child dies un-necessarily in far too many cases.
.
This, of course, should be a criminally actionable act, at least until the child reaches the age of logical thinking and mature sanity (let's suggest, in general, >> 18 or 20 yrs of age, not the "mind of" a tragically ill 5 - 13 year old!)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...-go-to-prison/

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...877352,00.html

http://www.masskids.org/index.php?op...161&Itemid=165

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baby-al...ry?id=13687650

...and so on and so forth, ad nauseum!

Uhmmm... versus deaths caused by "rampant, ethically bereft & Evil™ atheism? Search search search... dum dee dum... "Nope! Nada! Well! What do we do with that little stat I wonder?

Last edited by rifleman; 08-13-2013 at 01:36 PM..
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:47 PM
 
Location: The Old Dominion
774 posts, read 1,423,519 times
Reputation: 1172
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 5,822,980 times
Reputation: 2593
I side with General Mills because Cinnamon Toast Crunch is da bomb.

My Catholic gf has been in the hospital for a while (long story) but she basically had major medical issues. Religious commentary is very prevalent in her recovery. Her Jesus freak friends (whose lives are a complete train wreck btw) are having a field day because, of course, her recovery is "proof" of god's divine existence and mercy. So much Jesus freak crazy talk it's a bit disturbing:

"God didn't do this to you! Nothing bad comes from God! (and I'm thinking, uuuh, did you read the old testament?)" "Prayer is powerful! (... and so are antibiotics)"
"I was dead! (no you weren't) and God saved me!"
(Insert crazy talk here).
"I remember being baptized and it was amazing!" (but you don't remember me wiping your arse when you shat on yourself... how convenient.).


Never mind that the lung machine kept her alive, along with dialysis (I don't see god cleaning your blood... a guy named Ahmed did it), meds, and medical expertise. I keep thinking, "if your lung machine was shut off, you'd be dead in less that 10 minutes no matter how much you or your friends and family prayed. Not to mention, the fact that she lives now versus 50 years ago, and lives in the U.S. versus... say Somalia, saved her as well. But, people don't think about that. They WANT to believe that they are special and "saved" because... well... they are special in god's eyes with some type of divine purpose. They "feel it" therefore it's true. But I don't want to pee in her Wheaties... so I don't see the point of refuting crazy talk (much).

It's really been interesting to see the religious take something for what it is and weave it into their way of thinking. It doesn't even occur to them that there's a different way to look at the situation (yup the medical system saved your life, give them credit where it's due and pay your hospital bill while your at it). It's fascinating how the mind works.

I don't pretend to have influence over the cosmos, but many people believe they have the backing of a superpower god - all knowing, all powerful, super god. It's crazy, but ask a theist, and they'll insist it's not. I just think of it as people needing the idea of a super god to help them get through life and to face death because death is scary (but not as scary as speaking in public apparently).
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,889,935 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear2 View Post
I side with General Mills because Cinnamon Toast Crunch is da bomb.

My Catholic gf has been in the hospital for a while (long story) but she basically had major medical issues. Religious commentary is very prevalent in her recovery. Her Jesus freak friends (whose lives are a complete train wreck btw) are having a field day because, of course, her recovery is "proof" of god's divine existence and mercy. So much Jesus freak crazy talk it's a bit disturbing:

"God didn't do this to you! Nothing bad comes from God! (and I'm thinking, uuuh, did you read the old testament?)" "Prayer is powerful! (... and so are antibiotics)"
"I was dead! (no you weren't) and God saved me!"
(Insert crazy talk here).
"I remember being baptized and it was amazing!" (but you don't remember me wiping your arse when you shat on yourself... how convenient.).


Never mind that the lung machine kept her alive, along with dialysis (I don't see god cleaning your blood... a guy named Ahmed did it), meds, and medical expertise. I keep thinking, "if your lung machine was shut off, you'd be dead in less that 10 minutes no matter how much you or your friends and family prayed. Not to mention, the fact that she lives now versus 50 years ago, and lives in the U.S. versus... say Somalia, saved her as well. But, people don't think about that. They WANT to believe that they are special and "saved" because... well... they are special in god's eyes with some type of divine purpose. They "feel it" therefore it's true. But I don't want to pee in her Wheaties... so I don't see the point of refuting crazy talk (much).


I think you made me just pee my pants. lol


It's really been interesting to see the religious take something for what it is and weave it into their way of thinking. It doesn't even occur to them that there's a different way to look at the situation (yup the medical system saved your life, give them credit where it's due and pay your hospital bill while your at it). It's fascinating how the mind works.

I don't pretend to have influence over the cosmos, but many people believe they have the backing of a superpower god - all knowing, all powerful, super god. It's crazy, but ask a theist, and they'll insist it's not. I just think of it as people needing the idea of a super god to help them get through life and to face death because death is scary (but not as scary as speaking in public apparently).
Isn't this so true! You should hear them trying to justify my son's Tourette's. Meanwhile he's shouting with a voice that sounds like the devil lives in his stomach. Some of them actually think he should see a priest. I'm guessing the "Exorcist" made a bigger impression on them then it did me. Most of them just tell me politely that sparing the rod was my main problem. ha ha ha

I usually respond with kind words and explain how our God has Tourettes and we are just doing what our lord has told us to do. Spreading the word
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:23 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 5,822,980 times
Reputation: 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Isn't this so true! You should hear them trying to justify my son's Tourette's. Meanwhile he's shouting with a voice that sounds like the devil lives in his stomach. Some of them actually think he should see a priest. I'm guessing the "Exorcist" made a bigger impression on them then it did me. Most of them just tell me politely that sparing the rod was my main problem. ha ha ha

I usually respond with kind words and explain how our God has Tourettes and we are just doing what our lord has told us to do. Spreading the word
Hahahahahaha! OMG, I think you and I would be BFFs. My daughter developed tics for about a year (hard blinking w/ an eye roll). I know people mean well (I guess) when they're telling you what you should do... but a priest for Tourette's? That's just bizarre to me.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:56 PM
 
293 posts, read 212,744 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear2 View Post
I side with General Mills because Cinnamon Toast Crunch is da bomb.

My Catholic gf has been in the hospital for a while (long story) but she basically had major medical issues. Religious commentary is very prevalent in her recovery. Her Jesus freak friends (whose lives are a complete train wreck btw) are having a field day because, of course, her recovery is "proof" of god's divine existence and mercy. So much Jesus freak crazy talk it's a bit disturbing:

"God didn't do this to you! Nothing bad comes from God! (and I'm thinking, uuuh, did you read the old testament?)" "Prayer is powerful! (... and so are antibiotics)"
"I was dead! (no you weren't) and God saved me!"
(Insert crazy talk here).
"I remember being baptized and it was amazing!" (but you don't remember me wiping your arse when you shat on yourself... how convenient.).


Never mind that the lung machine kept her alive, along with dialysis (I don't see god cleaning your blood... a guy named Ahmed did it), meds, and medical expertise. I keep thinking, "if your lung machine was shut off, you'd be dead in less that 10 minutes no matter how much you or your friends and family prayed. Not to mention, the fact that she lives now versus 50 years ago, and lives in the U.S. versus... say Somalia, saved her as well. But, people don't think about that. They WANT to believe that they are special and "saved" because... well... they are special in god's eyes with some type of divine purpose. They "feel it" therefore it's true. But I don't want to pee in her Wheaties... so I don't see the point of refuting crazy talk (much).

LOL ... funny stuff, momma


Quote:
It's really been interesting to see the religious take something for what it is and weave it into their way of thinking. It doesn't even occur to them that there's a different way to look at the situation (yup the medical system saved your life, give them credit where it's due and pay your hospital bill while your at it). It's fascinating how the mind works.

I don't pretend to have influence over the cosmos, but many people believe they have the backing of a superpower god - all knowing, all powerful, super god. It's crazy, but ask a theist, and they'll insist it's not. I just think of it as people needing the idea of a super god to help them get through life and to face death because death is scary (but not as scary as speaking in public apparently).

Yep, that's pretty much what it boils down to...
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