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Old 08-19-2013, 09:23 PM
 
13,677 posts, read 13,575,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacierx View Post
Since you've asked so nicely (and I thank you for that) I will satisfy your request. From page 35:
I've seen studies that have found the opposite in the US (liberals have higher IQs than conservatives). I suspect the difference is slight and probably fluctuates over time. A review of the US literature (I can't find the link) seems to have found that the total body of studies on this topic was inconclusive.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,019 posts, read 2,692,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
I've seen studies that have found the opposite in the US (liberals have higher IQs than conservatives). I suspect the difference is slight and probably fluctuates over time. A review of the US literature (I can't find the link) seems to have found that the total body of studies on this topic was inconclusive.
And even if it were conclusive that liberals had less education or lower IQs, some people posting on the previous page would simply dismiss it out of hand for going against their preconceived notion of what they believe to be true (as others would do if the opposite scenario were conclusive). There are so many variables that need to be constant (religion, income, etc.) when assessing this one variable (education). From another forum I frequent, the right-wing atheists seem to be more educated than the left-wing atheists. Admittedly, I lean right-of-center myself, so I'm probably unfairly elevating people I agree with, therefore, I can't really have an opinion one way or another on the matter; I can only relay what I've read in studies.

Every country is slightly different to be sure, and even the definitions of conservative, liberal, right-wing, left-wing, etc. are somewhat subjective terms that vary from nation to nation. I wonder if atheism in the U.S. more closely associated with the left than it is in other countries. From my perspective here in British Columbia, atheists and agnostics are pretty evenly distributed across the political spectrum.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,518 posts, read 2,445,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Data1000 View Post
In addition to being an agnostic, you are also either a theist or atheist.
No, I'm not. There is a difference but honestly I usually put myself in the atheist category to save myself the hassle of having to explain it to those that don't understand the difference. A lot of Christians cannot differentiate between the two and have never even heard the term "agnostic" and it's just not a big enough of a deal to me to try to explain it. You want to claim I'm an atheist? Go right ahead doesn't matter. I know what I am. Or what I'm not.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:12 AM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,516,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BhejendraPun View Post
I appreciate you for not posting it in facebook as you were afraid that this kind of post may hurt some people. But isn't posting here is same as posting in the facebook. I don't know but i think this is the fact hahahahahaha....................

No, it's not the same. On Facebook, Jrz would have to listen to friends and relatives get all indignant and possibly deal with their, er, stupidity, "in real life" at social gatherings. Also, she posted this in the Atheism and Agnosticism forum here, where she is most likely to NOT be subjected to the outrage of believers, who are generally not here, and for those who are, there are rules about preaching their own beliefs and criticizing atheist/agnostic (dis)beliefs and thinking.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
No, it's not the same. On Facebook, Jrz would have to listen to friends and relatives get all indignant and possibly deal with their, er, stupidity, "in real life" at social gatherings. Also, she posted this in the Atheism and Agnosticism forum here, where she is most likely to NOT be subjected to the outrage of believers, who are generally not here, and for those who are, there are rules about preaching their own beliefs and criticizing atheist/agnostic (dis)beliefs and thinking.
Pretty much. I was curious about the atheist/agnostic response, and I wasn't interested in starting World War 3 on my FB page.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,857 posts, read 3,781,164 times
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I think we have to be very careful making a correlation between a persons religiosity and their IQ for these reasons:

The point with IQ is that it should test a persons intelligence regardless of their education, age, circumstances or upbringing. ie if you have your IQ tested at age 20, it should be the same result when you are tested at age 40.
Myself and my husband have tested our IQ's three times over the years and have found them to be stable. (We both come from extremely different educational backgrounds, not that this is relevant)
While there are studies to suggest that education can affect IQ to a degree, for the most part, under normal circumstances, this should not be the case.
IQ tests were not originally designed to test a persons education but their intelligence quotient.


The title of the study in itself is misleading:
"Religious people are less intelligent than atheists, study finds"
and then in the text:
Quote:
intelligent people are less likely to believe, the researchers found
..This only means it is less likely, it does not mean that if you are more intelligent you will be an atheist, or if you believe in god you are less intelligent.


What then if you spent part of your life as a religious person, then later become an atheist? Do you suddenly become more intelligent?
What if you start as an atheist then find religion? Does your IQ suddenly drop?
Clearly according to your IQ this is not the case since your IQ should never change.


Finally I know a good number of very intelligent people who also believe in god.


So basically I'd take this study with a pinch of salt.

Last edited by Cruithne; 08-21-2013 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Vernon, British Columbia
3,019 posts, read 2,692,354 times
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The other important aspect is that people become less religious as they gain wealth and affluence (which more intelligent people are more inclined to do), so it's likely that there is correlation but not causation between IQ and a person's religious beliefs.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,820 posts, read 18,549,595 times
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I'm uncertain of the worth of these sorts of studies which reply on general IQ score to make their determinations. Intellectual ability is compartmentalized and great intelligence is typically of the savant variety. I had an uncle who was a math savant, he could do eight figure long division problems in his head and produce instant answers. It would take us five minutes with a pencil and paper to verify that he was not just making it up. Apart from that talent, he was one of the dumbest relatives I have had, the sort who could never keep a job or offer anything but ignorant opinions on issues.

Why wouldn't the ability to see through mythical nonsense also be a savant style feature of intelligence, with some having no difficulty at all recognizing that the religious claims are founded on air, but others having tremendous struggles with doubts but retaining their faith, and others never questioning any aspect at all of their religious instruction? If you gather 100 people and ask them to solve math problems for comparative purposes, you will get a wide distribution of success and failure because abilities are widely distributed.

Why would that ability distribution not apply to the intellectual problem of viewing the cosmos and speculating on its origins and functioning? I suspect that it most likely does apply, it is just that the nature of theological argument does not permit verification the way it does with math problems.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,857 posts, read 3,781,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I'm uncertain of the worth of these sorts of studies which reply on general IQ score to make their determinations. Intellectual ability is compartmentalized and great intelligence is typically of the savant variety. I had an uncle who was a math savant, he could do eight figure long division problems in his head and produce instant answers. It would take us five minutes with a pencil and paper to verify that he was not just making it up. Apart from that talent, he was one of the dumbest relatives I have had, the sort who could never keep a job or offer anything but ignorant opinions on issues.

Why wouldn't the ability to see through mythical nonsense also be a savant style feature of intelligence, with some having no difficulty at all recognizing that the religious claims are founded on air, but others having tremendous struggles with doubts but retaining their faith, and others never questioning any aspect at all of their religious instruction? If you gather 100 people and ask them to solve math problems for comparative purposes, you will get a wide distribution of success and failure because abilities are widely distributed.

Why would that ability distribution not apply to the intellectual problem of viewing the cosmos and speculating on its origins and functioning? I suspect that it most likely does apply, it is just that the nature of theological argument does not permit verification the way it does with math problems.

Precisely. IQ tests are an imperfect method of measuring intellectual ability. They measure general cognitive ability which is a fairly accurate indicator of intellectual potential, but they don't tell the whole story. They don't measure creativity, social skills, wisdom, or acquired abilities. So while they are a fairly accurate indicator of intelligence, there are a whole host of other factors to be considered.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:48 PM
 
12,677 posts, read 14,059,781 times
Reputation: 34728
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
Turns out atheists are smarter.

Religious people are less intelligent than atheists, study finds

I don't want to start a thread on my FB that will end in hurt feelings, so I'm posting it here.
Yeah! It's a pack of thick-skinned brutes here all the way
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