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Old 09-17-2013, 03:30 PM
 
66 posts, read 111,240 times
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I always doubted, but tried to believe, partly for my Grandma, I think. She took care of me and my brother while my mom worked, so she was like a second mom. I also, tried to believe because my husband did. However, the biggest thing to chip away at my faith was seeing my grandma suffer a great bit in her last few years until she would eventually die an awful death. She always was a "good Christian", and did the right thing. Where did it get her?? She regretted so much of her life at the end. Also, where was god to protect her from money grubbing relatives and neglectful assisted living staff?? I just couldn't get past it, and keep believing in a god that would allow her to suffer like that. She was an amazing person and did not deserve that.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:33 PM
 
604 posts, read 464,739 times
Reputation: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Don't you mean.........

If it wasn't for Europeans sailing over to America and BUYING your people.....from.....your fellow Africans?

Honestly..inconsequential.
I dont get why some people think some great counter critical point is being made by pointing this (already well known) fact out. Doesnt diminish the wrongness nor magnitude of the practice in America.

A more significant point to illuminate is that these brutal means of forced introduction to christianity are the same that were used to convert the northern europeans centuries before. And in the end, the christian cult is no worse than the "pagan" cults of europe or africa that preceded it. And most importantly, christianity and the scattered pagan beliefs that predate it are all equally false.
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:17 AM
 
39,023 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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I'm always a bit chary of getting involved in emotional side issues (that's why I am so leaving alone the 'women atheists' thread) but I do see this business of slavery as wrong and shameful, and it doesn't matter whether Christians or atheists were sailing the ships or funding the trade, or for that matter whether it was Muslims slave -trading across the desert. Nor does it make any difference whether the ones fighting to end the slave trade or indeed or apartheid or race discrimination are Christians or atheists.

The slave trade was wrong, even if the Africans themselves assisted in it, Christianity is wrong on the grounds of evidence, not because the slave traders were Christians. And atheism is right on the evidence, not because Christians once thought slavery was OK. At one time, almost everyone did, and everyone believed in Christianity, too. The matter is (I would argue) a historical one from which we should learn, not a present argument to use in the religion debate.
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,158 posts, read 13,418,020 times
Reputation: 20593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Honestly..inconsequential.
I dont get why some people think some great counter critical point is being made by pointing this (already well known) fact out. Doesnt diminish the wrongness nor magnitude of the practice in America.

A more significant point to illuminate is that these brutal means of forced introduction to christianity are the same that were used to convert the northern europeans centuries before. And in the end, the christian cult is no worse than the "pagan" cults of europe or africa that preceded it. And most importantly, christianity and the scattered pagan beliefs that predate it are all equally false.
My issue is that blacks tend to blame slavery exclusively on whites.....and that is hardly the case.

Blacks are just as guilty as whites when it comes to perpetrating slavery.
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,190 posts, read 9,077,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
My issue is that blacks tend to blame slavery exclusively on whites.....and that is hardly the case.

Blacks are just as guilty as whites when it comes to perpetrating slavery.
Let's not get on a derail about this. Who blames who and who is more to blame is a topic for another thread in a different forum.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: The Big O
590 posts, read 663,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will307 View Post
The atheist experience show on Youtube turned me super atheist in the blink of an eye, also reading the bible and learning more about science and other religions helped too. What did it for you?
At age 21, I came across the most difficult part of my life. I was a very moderate Christian at that time, but the experience caused me to become very pius and devout. As I was suddenly alone in a strange new city, I joined church groups, read the bible daily, and turned to "God" for comfort. I eventually saw the hypocrisy and other negative aspects in the groups and the bible. I also began to notice that my god was not communicating back to me, at least not in a coherent way. Eventually, it became clear to me that I was talking to or 'telepathically' communicating with a brick wall.

Therefore, becoming very religious was what lead to me becoming an atheist.
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:31 PM
 
51 posts, read 307,036 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Don't you mean.........

If it wasn't for Europeans sailing over to America and BUYING your people.....from.....your fellow Africans?



I was unaware that Europeans BOUGHT African slaves from fellow Africans, I never knew until today I just looked up some info. I've always thought they that they just came over and captured us and etc.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:48 PM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,702,624 times
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Quote:
I can't ever remember believing in god.
hmmm..but why limit yourself????????????? I'd suggest you let your mind entertain the thought. Who knows where it will take you?? There's kind of a great big world and universe out there, you know? Pondering can do no harm. At the least it makes life interesting...;-)...
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:56 AM
 
39,023 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will307 View Post


I asked myself questions as well and thought about the same things you did. 'Why does there need to be a god?' 'How does god exist?' 'What is his nature?' 'If god is omniscient why did he get mad at Adam and Eve when they sinned? Didn't he know it would happen before they did it?' I had a slew of other questions. I went to a church and showed a pastor my list of questions and he tried to answer them but he gave me some bull**** answers. I just used simple logic and realized it was all crap. And like you I also believe that all religions have a message for us but we're not receiving it because of how people are being taught by the priests and preachers. I think that most of these holy books contain metaphors and we need to understand what is metaphorical and what isn't. I don't think that these books just popped up for no reason I believe there is a deeper meaning behind all of these religions that we don't know because the churches don't want people to grow up. They want to control us and take our money.
Nice post. I think, like you, that there IS a reason why these Holy Books 'popped up' but I think the reason is to be found in evolved social - survival instincts rather than some supernatural unknown. But I could be wrong, of course.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:05 AM
 
39,023 posts, read 10,819,276 times
Reputation: 5081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will307 View Post


I was unaware that Europeans BOUGHT African slaves from fellow Africans, I never knew until today I just looked up some info. I've always thought they that they just came over and captured us and etc.
Sometimes they (Ok. make that 'We') did, but it is generally true that they bought (with rubbish, mostly) war -prisoners or just surplus people that the local king could spare in exchange for some iron cauldrons and a pair of revolvers - read Flash for freedom (1) for a good tale and a -not totally unbiased - account of the slave -trade from Guinea to Louisiana.

(1) memorable quote 'Without the assistance of (..african kings..) we couldn't have got a single slave out of the place..'
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