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Old 11-16-2007, 12:36 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,496,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arguy1973 View Post
I thought maybe you had one specifically in mind.
Have you ever flown in an airplane?

If so, did you believe that it would fly?
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,442,390 times
Reputation: 1052
The case for atheism is found in one word: education.

Study meteorology and the patterns that drive local weather events are no longer mysterious and thought to be proceeding from the hand of God.

Study history and the distribution of human beings, their abilities to exploit the natural world, their tendency to war with those of different traditions, etc. will become known to you, and you will be able to weigh the claims of religious leaders about the uniqueness of their belief systems and the events related to those beliefs.

Study physics to understand the nature and behavior of matter and energy of all kinds, especially those that are hidden to the naked human eye.

Study chemistry to understand how elemental matter can combine and how the variety of those combinations results in the properties of physical objects of all kinds.

Study literature to understand the process of conceiving and transmitting documents, narratives, and literary works of art, including religious documents, to learn how to analyze religious documents to determine their probable histories and authorship in historic time.

Study engineering to learn how to use scientific knowledge to construct objects that supplement the features friendly to man's habitation found in the natural world.

Etc.

A good part of the human impulse toward religion is based on the mysteriousness of the world around us. Much of that sense of mysteriousness is due to lack of education. When it becomes known to the individual how 'knowable' the characteristics of that world are to the human mind, one becomes much less willing to accept as fact superstitions, fairy tales, wishful thinking, and bigotry dressed up as 'God's Will.'

I'm not saying that there is a hard and fast correlation between greater levels of education and lower levels of religious belief, but I am saying that as one's education increases one's prerequisities for religious belief tend to become more stringent.

Last edited by ParkTwain; 11-16-2007 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:34 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 8,716,136 times
Reputation: 1972
Quote:
Originally Posted by arguy1973 View Post
Because I believe the Genesis account of creation. And what science do I accept everyday?
So you:

- Don't believe the dinosaurs existed
- Think there was a Garden of Eden
- Think the earth is flat
- Think the sun circles the earth
- The Tower of Babel actually caused our different languages from today?


Woaaaahh I had no idea there were still people out there like that. I mean even the Catholic Church admits the Earth is round...and they were around waaaay longer than this American evangelical stuff happened.
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Poconos, Pa
49 posts, read 92,338 times
Reputation: 36
ParkTwain, Thank you for that post. It's my thoughts exactly, but I could never have worded it nearly as good as you did! It may not be exactly in how much education (like in college, etc.) one has, but in how much one THINKS things out, and learns to distinguish their personal BELIEF from FACT. Over and over on so many threads, it seems that those who are believers don't really want to THINK about the logic of it all, but rather believe as they wish, as it's either how they were raised, or what makes them comfortable or secure in life, or just what they are used to and don't wish to possibly "rock the boat" with any challenges or additional learning on science and facts. No offense meant to anyone, and everyone has the right to "believe" as they wish for whatever meets with their lifestyle and comfort level. Just don't say it to be FACT without any proof! Thanks for listening....
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:36 PM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,852,292 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmerkyGrl View Post
So you:

- Don't believe the dinosaurs existed
- Think there was a Garden of Eden
- Think the earth is flat
- Think the sun circles the earth?



Woaaaahh I had no idea there were still people out there like that. I mean even the Catholic Church admits the Earth is round...and they were around waaaay longer than this American evangelical stuff happened.
Can you please show us the scripture that states the earth is flat and that the sun circles the earth?
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:44 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 8,716,136 times
Reputation: 1972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Can you please show us the scripture that states the earth is flat and that the sun circles the earth?
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"


...you know that was kinda screwed up that you got a non-Christian to pull out her Bible and scan passages from what she learned long, long ago. But hope that satisfies you.
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:48 PM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,852,292 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmerkyGrl View Post
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"


...you know that was kinda screwed up that you got a non-Christian to pull out her Bible and scan passages from what she learned long, long ago. But hope that satisfies you.
It doesn't satisfy me.

People have used that kind of language throughout history, why would you misrepresent text like that?

So I'm assuming there was no sunrise or sunset where you are?

It's speech for Pete's sake.

There was an ad in my local paper the other day that read "Whole, cut-up fryers .89/lb", using the same skills you showed in those scriptures, could you please translate that ad for me?
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:57 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,256,442 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkTwain View Post
The case for atheism is found in one word: education.

Study meteorology and the patterns that drive local weather events are no longer mysterious and thought to be proceeding from the hand of God.

Study history and the distribution of human beings, their abilities to exploit the natural world, their tendency to war with those of different traditions, etc. will become known to you, and you will be able to weigh the claims of religious leaders about the uniqueness of their belief systems and the events related to those beliefs.

Study physics to understand the nature and behavior of matter and energy of all kinds, especially those that are hidden to the naked human eye.

Study chemistry to understand how elemental matter can combine and how the variety of those combinations results in the properties of physical objects of all kinds.

Study literature to understand the process of conceiving and transmitting documents, narratives, and literary works of art, including religious documents, to learn how to analyze religious documents to determine their probable histories and authorship in historic time.

Study engineering to learn how to use scientific knowledge to construct objects that supplement the features friendly to man's habitation found in the natural world.

Etc.

A good part of the human impulse toward religion is based on the mysteriousness of the world around us. Much of that sense of mysteriousness is due to lack of education. When it becomes known to the individual how 'knowable' the characteristics of that world are to the human mind, one becomes much less willing to accept as fact superstitions, fairy tales, wishful thinking, and bigotry dressed up as 'God's Will.'

I'm not saying that there is a hard and fast correlation between greater levels of education and lower levels of religious belief, but I am saying that as one's education increases one's prerequisities for religious belief tend to become more stringent.
An ant sure knows alot about an ant hill.. and the longer it lives there the more convinced it is that this is all there is. Sooo... no matter how hard it studies the ant hill and how it works, unless it realizes that there is more to life than the ant hill, it will remain ignorant of reality.

(Just used as an illustration... I don't pretend to be an authority on ants.)
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:58 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 8,716,136 times
Reputation: 1972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
It doesn't satisfy me.

People have used that kind of language throughout history, why would you misrepresent text like that?

So I'm assuming there was no sunrise or sunset where you are?

It's speech for Pete's sake.

There was an ad in my local paper the other day that read "Whole, cut-up fryers .89/lb", using the same skills you showed in those scriptures, could you please translate that ad for me?

Of course it doesn't satisfy you. I can quote every single phrase in the Bible for you and you can say I've mistranslated it for my own purposes. After all, the Bible mentions that even the Devil can use the scripture to serve his own purposes. As for me "misrepresenting" text...I think what you mean is that as long as I don't quote things that you agree with, I'm "misrepresenting" the text. Ever thought that perhaps that's what I ACTUALLY Think? That's what my translation, which is just as valid as YOUR translation, is?

However, remember that the Geo-centric view of the universe was a widely accepted view before SCIENCE proved that the solar system as actually heliocentric. Granted, the scientist that suggested this nearly got ripped apart by the Church for suggesting such a thing but that's another matter. This, my friend, is not a scientific speculation as it is written clearly in the history books.
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,442,390 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
An ant sure knows alot about an ant hill.. and the longer it lives there the more convinced it is that this is all there is. Sooo... no matter how hard it studies the ant hill and how it works, unless it realizes that there is more to life than the ant hill, it will remain ignorant of reality.

(Just used as an illustration... I don't pretend to be an authority on ants.)

This sounds like a description of Vatican City, in Italy, where the Pope lives.
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