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Old 09-24-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
1,649 posts, read 3,009,194 times
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Actually, following the golden rule is not about fear of consequences. It's paying it forward.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:19 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
195 posts, read 212,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Can someone please explain why some Christians seem to think that atheists live an anything goes life?
Do they honestly think this? Is the only reason they aren't out raping and killing is that their book tells them it's bad?

I really don't understand this line of thinking.
Wouldn't it make more sense to ask this in the Christian forum?
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,004 posts, read 18,578,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
Wouldn't it make more sense to ask this in the Christian forum?
Anything stopping you from doing that?
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
195 posts, read 212,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Anything stopping you from doing that?
I am neither Christian nor Atheist, so I have no reason to ask. I just find it so typical of atheists to ask themselves about how another group thinks instead of asking that group directly.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,452,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
Wouldn't it make more sense to ask this in the Christian forum?
No, I'm not a christian. I have no desire to have endless bible verses thrown at me.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,004 posts, read 18,578,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
I am neither Christian nor Atheist, so I have no reason to ask. I just find it so typical of atheists to ask themselves about how another group thinks instead of asking that group directly.
Not surprising, we think we are smarter than those other groups.
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:15 PM
 
16,102 posts, read 17,903,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Very well, so we see that there is an element of fear, even in the Golden Rule. We treat others well because we fear that by not doing so, we forfeit the right to be treated well by others.

All this reminds me that H.L Mencken defined "conscience" as:
"That inner voice which warns us that someone may be watching."

I see all morality as contractual because it requires a minimum of two people for any moral questions to arise. Because all morality is contractual, and because all contracts are based on expectations of negative consequences for the person who breaks the contract or fails to live up to its terms, I see all morality as having some sort of fear element.
Not necessarily fear. Btw, I prefer the platinum rule rather than the golden rule. Do unto others as they would have you do to them. This requires me to walk in the other person's shoes rather than to assume that s/he wants the same treatment I prefer.

Those of us who see these rules as what makes people good see the world as a connected place. We are connected to all people and we also see ourselves as having some control over how the world and people change. We are members of a common humanity.

That's also why many of us are not so invested in our particular tribal group or country. We see all humans as part of the *us* and don't separate people by us and them.
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,374,932 times
Reputation: 3735
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Yes I was referring to the fish. I certainly know about the Bible Belt. I have to live in the buckle of one with a creation science museum 2 blocks away from my house.

I haven't seen those fishes, so hence the question if it was a new trend.
Here cupper3: FYIyou really have never seen these glued to the backs of Volvo sedans?)

(The Darwinian version.. but still..):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7146/6...0b1b7d04_n.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/christianity/1/0/...stian_Fish.png

and...

http://www.londonbaystationery.com/I...jesus_fish.jpg

and...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...zRY64n6K5kgxpg

Plus the alternative...

http://thumbs1.picclick.com/d/w1600/...RWIN-JESUS.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
I am neither Christian nor Atheist, so I have no reason to ask. I just find it so typical of atheists to ask themselves about how another group thinks instead of asking that group directly.
We forum atheists have become defensive (noting that, firstly, by far the majority of atheists could give a rat's patoot about what theists think.. but sadly and secondly, because we're often being morally demonized and attacked right here on these fora by defensively hostile Christians..)

So then we often ask for some open and simple one-on-one question and answer sessions and discussions, but it is eternally and predictably avoided.

Why, one may well ask? Fear is what one concludes.
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,004 posts, read 18,578,670 times
Reputation: 18678
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Not necessarily fear. Btw, I prefer the platinum rule rather than the golden rule. Do unto others as they would have you do to them. This requires me to walk in the other person's shoes rather than to assume that s/he wants the same treatment I prefer.

Those of us who see these rules as what makes people good see the world as a connected place. We are connected to all people and we also see ourselves as having some control over how the world and people change. We are members of a common humanity.

That's also why many of us are not so invested in our particular tribal group or country. We see all humans as part of the *us* and don't separate people by us and them.
Who was it who said "Scratch any saint deeply enough and you will uncover self interest?"

Oh wait, that was me. Whaddya know?

Good and evil do not exist as self contained forces, they exist only as opinions. That you are good in your own opinion does not mean much, it must be validated by you being seen as good by others. You may believe that you are being good for the sake of being good, but it is really for the sake of being seen as good. If their were no others, you wouldn't be concerned about being good for any reason.

So, the fear I speak of is a positive force, not something which we need to deny in order to sustain illusions about our innate goodness.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:33 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,092,389 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Here cupper3: FYIyou really have never seen these glued to the backs of Volvo sedans?)

(The Darwinian version.. but still..):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7146/6...0b1b7d04_n.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/christianity/1/0/...stian_Fish.png

and...

http://www.londonbaystationery.com/I...jesus_fish.jpg

and...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...zRY64n6K5kgxpg

Plus the alternative...

http://thumbs1.picclick.com/d/w1600/...RWIN-JESUS.jpg



We forum atheists have become defensive (noting that, firstly, by far the majority of atheists could give a rat's patoot about what theists think.. but sadly and secondly, because we're often being morally demonized and attacked right here on these fora by defensively hostile Christians..)

So then we often ask for some open and simple one-on-one question and answer sessions and discussions, but it is eternally and predictably avoided.

Why, one may well ask? Fear is what one concludes.
Oh... THOSE fish... We call them the Jesus fish.

On the issue of discussion with Christians, take a look at the new sticky that is in the Christian forum as of tonight. Essentially what it's saying is they are going to consider if one questions the belief of a person that that is considered an attack on the person and will be a violation. I guess they don't want any non Christians in that forum.
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