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Old 10-20-2013, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,385,753 times
Reputation: 3735

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Yup. Apologies! Have a good afternoon!
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Old 10-20-2013, 04:55 PM
 
Location: california
5,673 posts, read 4,895,222 times
Reputation: 6693
People choose the evidence that suits them.
I am a less than perfect person, having made my share of mistakes in life ,I know that I don't have the intellect that many boast of .
Knowing I need the extra help, I choose to turn to God for help, and in this choice I see the answers and get the direction that guides me away, through, and around trouble .
This is not a theory coming from a church or theology ,but a life time of needing this guidance, having been betrayed by men often, in their own wisdom.
Science is unstable , hard as they try always finding they have to readjust their theories .
God is not bound to science or man's thinking nor even his vote for that matter.
God defies natural science from time to time in creative ways .
How did the lantern fish develop the light in front of his face ?
How do worms live in arctic ice with out freezing to death ?
How do certain insects endure freezing with out crystalization and come back to life . How could this evolve ?
I see these things as God having disturbed the natural process of things .
Why doesn't the heat from a fire not kill the germ in the seeds of a pine cone, while needing that fire for it is opening up to release them?
For a drone bee to impregnate the queen in flight he must explode (die) while in contact .
The bombadeer beadle explodes if threatened , why,, how,, ? sacrificing his life to save his species.
There is no room for this stuff to evolve. Is there ?
I believe God made these things to baffle man and his tendency to avoid looking the other way, toward God.
I see God's interruptions because I pray, not because men think God has to intervene with out request.
God has intervened on my account with out request specifically ,but there is an on going dialog with God in my life.
So , How is it God stops, or brings rain, if I ask? (needing to be taught how to pray). How is it God heals on the spot ? (needing to be taught how to pray). I don't manipulate God, I cooperate with Him.
No known science, can do the things God does for those that actually love Him.
But one is determined not to see, it wouldn't matter if some one was brought back from the dead.
I am not blind to science , it is a real fascination for me both internal medicine and natural science, electronics, hydraulics , chemistry and mechanical engineering, and many other interests .
I have books for many of the species of life on earth , and when I can spend time under the water observing life both in fresh and salt water. I live on wind and solar power, ride bicycles and motorcycle , extremely conservative with resources .
Wild rabbits are safe by me, but other natural predators , hawks and cyote feed on them freely, neither do I endanger .
I am building a green house but would prefer a biosphere.
How much have you invested in learning about the world around you?
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,704,584 times
Reputation: 35450
Quote:
.......How much have you invested in learning about the world around you?
Enough to suit my needs just as you have yours. The only thing your long diatribe lacks is humility. Your last sentence says it all.
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,385,753 times
Reputation: 3735
Wink An interesting perspective!

Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
People choose the evidence that suits them.

How much have you invested in learning about the world around you?
A lot, frankly, and as a professional career biologist, geneticist, and research scientist that has over 5 papers published after peer-reviewed for proper processing, plus, of late, an automotive engineer, plus a lot of practical field geology, I can assure you I have seen a lot of rational explanations. I prefer them to guessing or giving credit to a mythical entity who will not show Himself.

Your choice and position, as per your post, is to be "amazed!!" and thus wholly determined to acknowledge God as the only source of all you are astonished by.

However, the bigger potential question is this, arleigh: is it just possible that there are rational and understandable non-spiritual explanations for the things you are simply amazed by?

I'm not saying you either should, even if you could...abandon all your wide-eyed determinations, but a rational thinker should also be capable of meeting other options at least halfways (...more like about 90% across the bridge that modern knowledge and understanding has provided, actually, but I won''t push here...) and realize that there are some very good explanations for what you have seen.

If you need to affirm the "take" on the world that you have espoused in your post, so be it. Just know that I could easily explain a lot of what astonished you.

I understand the Christian culture very well now and it is what it is.

Meantime, enjoy whatever assumptions make you feel safe and "guided"!
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:46 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,027,507 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
No, deep down, everyone does not believe there is something out there. We really don't. That may be difficult for you to grasp if you were steeped in religion from earliest infancy, but it is true. I no more believe, deep down, that there is a God than I believe, deep down, there is a tooth fairy.

But the arrogance is on the part of the religious, not on the part of atheists. No atheist I know claims to know, for an absolute fact, that there is no God. We just find it extremely unlikely. There is simply no evidence for it, and much evidence to the contrary.

The religious, on the other hand, claim to know, for a fact, and with no evidence, that God is real. Now that's arrogance!
Amen!
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:49 PM
 
Location: WA
4,246 posts, read 7,847,536 times
Reputation: 2364
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
People choose the evidence that suits them.
I am a less than perfect person, having made my share of mistakes in life ,I know that I don't have the intellect that many boast of .
Knowing I need the extra help, I choose to turn to God for help, and in this choice I see the answers and get the direction that guides me away, through, and around trouble .
This is not a theory coming from a church or theology ,but a life time of needing this guidance, having been betrayed by men often, in their own wisdom.
Science is unstable , hard as they try always finding they have to readjust their theories .
God is not bound to science or man's thinking nor even his vote for that matter.
God defies natural science from time to time in creative ways .
How did the lantern fish develop the light in front of his face ?
How do worms live in arctic ice with out freezing to death ?
How do certain insects endure freezing with out crystalization and come back to life . How could this evolve ?
I see these things as God having disturbed the natural process of things .
Why doesn't the heat from a fire not kill the germ in the seeds of a pine cone, while needing that fire for it is opening up to release them?
For a drone bee to impregnate the queen in flight he must explode (die) while in contact .
The bombadeer beadle explodes if threatened , why,, how,, ? sacrificing his life to save his species.
There is no room for this stuff to evolve. Is there ?
I believe God made these things to baffle man and his tendency to avoid looking the other way, toward God.
I see God's interruptions because I pray, not because men think God has to intervene with out request.
God has intervened on my account with out request specifically ,but there is an on going dialog with God in my life.
So , How is it God stops, or brings rain, if I ask? (needing to be taught how to pray). How is it God heals on the spot ? (needing to be taught how to pray). I don't manipulate God, I cooperate with Him.
No known science, can do the things God does for those that actually love Him.
But one is determined not to see, it wouldn't matter if some one was brought back from the dead.
I am not blind to science , it is a real fascination for me both internal medicine and natural science, electronics, hydraulics , chemistry and mechanical engineering, and many other interests .
I have books for many of the species of life on earth , and when I can spend time under the water observing life both in fresh and salt water. I live on wind and solar power, ride bicycles and motorcycle , extremely conservative with resources .
Wild rabbits are safe by me, but other natural predators , hawks and cyote feed on them freely, neither do I endanger .
I am building a green house but would prefer a biosphere.
How much have you invested in learning about the world around you?
Tons of room. Remember that it took 3.5 BILLION years for all these living things that you see today to acquire all these cool adaptations via natural selection. A small change in a gene here, a change in gene regulation there, a change in chromosome structure over there. It's really not that much of a stretch to go from no dangly light to dangly light, or to come up with just one antifreeze chemical.


p.s. The Bombardier Beetle is not harmed by his own butt spray.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:45 PM
 
3 posts, read 2,351 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I think probably to the OP, "deep down" is just code words for "driven deep into your subconscious because you just don't want to admit it to yourself or to others". In other words to the OP, belief / faith / knowledge of capital "T" Truth is innate and edge cases are explained away with pop psychology and subtle and not-so-subtle accusations of lying.

Anything to deny or "explain" away or delegitimize any personal experience or testimony contrary to fundamentalist dogma.
I don't get theism. I used to be a theist. It is a lot healthier, more calming, and I feel so much more free, believing there probably isn't a god than to think he deserted us.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:56 PM
 
3 posts, read 2,351 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
People choose the evidence that suits them.
I am a less than perfect person, having made my share of mistakes in life ,I know that I don't have the intellect that many boast of .
Knowing I need the extra help, I choose to turn to God for help, and in this choice I see the answers and get the direction that guides me away, through, and around trouble .
This is not a theory coming from a church or theology ,but a life time of needing this guidance, having been betrayed by men often, in their own wisdom.
Science is unstable , hard as they try always finding they have to readjust their theories .
God is not bound to science or man's thinking nor even his vote for that matter.
God defies natural science from time to time in creative ways .
How did the lantern fish develop the light in front of his face ?
How do worms live in arctic ice with out freezing to death ?
How do certain insects endure freezing with out crystalization and come back to life . How could this evolve ?
I see these things as God having disturbed the natural process of things .
Why doesn't the heat from a fire not kill the germ in the seeds of a pine cone, while needing that fire for it is opening up to release them?
For a drone bee to impregnate the queen in flight he must explode (die) while in contact .
The bombadeer beadle explodes if threatened , why,, how,, ? sacrificing his life to save his species.
There is no room for this stuff to evolve. Is there ?
I believe God made these things to baffle man and his tendency to avoid looking the other way, toward God.
I see God's interruptions because I pray, not because men think God has to intervene with out request.
God has intervened on my account with out request specifically ,but there is an on going dialog with God in my life.
So , How is it God stops, or brings rain, if I ask? (needing to be taught how to pray). How is it God heals on the spot ? (needing to be taught how to pray). I don't manipulate God, I cooperate with Him.
No known science, can do the things God does for those that actually love Him.
But one is determined not to see, it wouldn't matter if some one was brought back from the dead.
I am not blind to science , it is a real fascination for me both internal medicine and natural science, electronics, hydraulics , chemistry and mechanical engineering, and many other interests .
I have books for many of the species of life on earth , and when I can spend time under the water observing life both in fresh and salt water. I live on wind and solar power, ride bicycles and motorcycle , extremely conservative with resources .
Wild rabbits are safe by me, but other natural predators , hawks and cyote feed on them freely, neither do I endanger .
I am building a green house but would prefer a biosphere.
How much have you invested in learning about the world around you?
I always wonder just how you know that was god intervening? Schizophrenics say that too at times. I've had certain instances of awe. Creation is fascinating. I think there might even be ghosts. Some of the Native Americans believe that when we die we are right here! Just in a new dimension. I tend to think that is more probable, grandma intervened cause she knows me. But who knows? Giving up speculation freed me. That's all I can tell you.
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,087 posts, read 12,036,250 times
Reputation: 9717
Quote:
Originally Posted by skilldeadly View Post
I think it's impossible to be termed an atheist. Everyone, deep down, believes there is SOMETHING. Why not Agnostic? To believe that something COULD be out there. It's pretty cocky and arrogant to say 100% that there is NOTHING out there. We don't even know 99% of space, but we can say there is nothing out there? No God? No driving force? No chance that something (whether you call it God or being or something else) controls the world?
But...but...it says right there in your bible.

"With God, ALL things are possible." -Matthew19:26.
Ha! Checkmate.
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:15 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,326,744 times
Reputation: 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
But...but...it says right there in your bible.

"With God, ALL things are possible." -Matthew19:26.
Ha! Checkmate.
Good one
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