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Old 10-24-2013, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
14,423 posts, read 7,937,494 times
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Chocolate is my security blanket. We all have our coping mechanisms. Most of my friends are religious and they respect my different point of view. It's the fanatics that are a total turn off with their total disrespect for another opinion different from theirs. That whole cult like devotion just creeps me out and makes me wonder if there isn't some element of a mental health issues in there somewhere. We have a friend that devotes at least 4 nights a week to church. He's missing out on a whole lot of life and fun. If he's wrong about his devotion then he's given up a lot for nothing. If I'm wrong about my opinion then all of my good deeds will be for not. Hmmmm maybe I should be totally evil and eat some more chocolate?
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,209,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
I can't help but notice how believers use their faith as a security blanket of sorts. It's almost as if they can't function without their faith. It's kind of sad really. They can't meet life on it's own terms, which is actually a sign of maturity and courage. Then when their security blanket is questioned or challenged, it's like a child throwing a temper tantrum. Thoughts anyone???
People are on all different levels. Some people could start walking around the world by themselves and really enjoy it, some would rather stay inside all day with the blinds down.

Some don't need an instruction manual for life and are thrilled with just being alive but some simply can't survive unless they have strict directions on how to do everything they do.

There is more than one way to be a human being. Sitting smug in our superiority for not needing a religious "security blanket" like some other people doesn't do us any good. Religion doesn't have to be literally true to be truly useful.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,368,254 times
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The longer I am without religion and its attributes, the longer and the more I count on myself. In the end that's the only person you can count on and completely trust. Get to know yourself and value your positive and try to better your negative traits. That's all the security blanket you need to get through. It may sound selfish to some who are cult followers but that's how the cookie crumbles. You can decide what's acceptable behavior and what's not, by going by your instincts and following your own inner "voice". It's not superior to feel you don't need fairytales and fake beings to guide you and keep you warm. In the end you live alone and die alone. Nothing sad about that, it's just real. In the meantime make the best of it for you and those you care about and come in contact with, no matter how brief.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:07 AM
 
2,854 posts, read 1,530,723 times
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you are equating faith with believing what you want to believe without evidence.
But that's only half the picture.

One can also know that something must be true yet still lack faith in it in spite of all evidence to the contrary.
In such a case having faith is the only rational thing to do.

I know that 2+2=4 and I have faith that it always does and yet, bizarrely, there are people on the internet that seem not to be sure that it always does

Last edited by granpa; 10-27-2013 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,092,754 times
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Originally Posted by granpa View Post
One can also know that something must be true yet still lack faith in it in spite of all evidence to the contrary. In such a case having faith is the only rational thing to do.
I read this several times and I'm not following it. How would I "know" that something "must" be true? What would be an example and how "must" would be derived? Hopefully it is something more than an argument from incredulity or simply and argument from desire.

You speak of lacking faith "despite all evidence to the contrary". If there is actual evidence then faith is not needed. This is a non-sequitur.

When would having faith ever be a rational thing to do? By definition it is belief without evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
I know that 2+2=4 and I have faith that it always does and yet, bizarrely, there are people on the internet that seem not to be sure that it always does
Math and logic are branches of philosophy, technically, rather than science, and are based on axioms that provide a framework for understanding abstractions like angles that are not actual things in the material world. Still, math is testable and performs consistently enough to provide the basis for technology that we rely on every day. It describes nature and its operations with great precision. 2+2 does always equal 4 and this is not an article of faith in the same way that, e.g., "god is omnibenevolent" is an article of faith. It is simply a thing that has been found to be invariably true within the framework of axioms such as those that define our numbering system and the properties of operations on those numbers.

On the other hand, "god is omnibenevolent" and any other god claim cannot be shown to be either objectively true or untrue even when god is adequately defined (e.g., the Judeo-Christian god per a particular confession of faith or doctrinal statement). God is invisible, ineffable, does not interact with us the way that other beings such as humans and animals interact with us, and we therefore cannot make observations that are testable about him. Even allowing for the sake of argument that god interacts with individuals via subjective experiences does not render god claims testable in shared reality, especially when believers make conflicting claims of their subjective experiences and subscribe to thousands of conflicting denominational filters.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:25 AM
 
2,854 posts, read 1,530,723 times
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as I said:
you are equating faith with believing what you want to believe without evidence
But that's only half the picture.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,092,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
as I said:
you are equating faith with believing what you want to believe without evidence
But that's only half the picture.
I got that much. I simply didn't understand the other half as you presented it. Can you perhaps address my points about the other half and show me where I am mistaken? Or do you just want to reassert the first half of your proposition and call it good? That's fine, too.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:10 AM
 
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what you can see empirically and what you feel inductively are two completely different things

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,092,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
what you can see empirically and what you feel inductively are two completely different things
They may be entirely different and often are. Induction is the derivation of probabilistic general principles from specific facts. It can, but does not necessarily, involve subjective feelings.

I don't see how this changes the nature of faith and the probabilities that can be generated from it. It is still belief without evidence, and in my experience does not provide strong evidence for a useful conclusion of inductive thinking about which we can have any confidence. I can't, for instance, see justification for the same level of confidence in either a general or specific god-belief that is equivalent to the level of confidence I can have that, say, my wife will be faithful to me as she has been in the past or any number of other not-totally-provable hypotheses that I rely on from day to day.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:38 AM
 
2,854 posts, read 1,530,723 times
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I don't need evidence to know that two plus two equals 4

but what you know and what you feel are two different things
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