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Old 10-23-2013, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,218 posts, read 54,695,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Yes, and they also mostly argue really obtuse points of doctrine, it is so inbred and incestuous and icky that I can't see any upside to engaging with it.
^What this says, and I'm Christian. It's very icky over there. Most Christians I know in RL don't have those types of discussions, but I belong to what's considered a liberal church (we accept gay people/ordain them, focus on social justice and our obligations thereto, know that the bible isn't a true literal history book, etc.)

I like this (A&A) forum because I like to read some of the points of view and logical thinking and because I feel very strongly as atheists do about the importance of separation of church and state.

I also like the Judaism forum because I live in an area where there is a large Jewish population and it's very informative to read their POVs and see their internal differences. Less so on the Islam forum, which seems closer to the fundamentalist-type of Christians in their rigidity, but we also have a signficant Muslim population here and I want to know more about what they think sometimes.

Admittedly, most of this has nothing to do with my personal religious beliefs and a lot more to do with my general interest in how people of different cultures/religions/races interact and get along--or don't--with one another.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,696,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear View Post
No, I think it's unfair to do so. We don't let proselytizing on this forum, so I don't think it's fair for us to post on the other religion specific forums. Let them have a safe place to discuss their hobby.
I am in agreement with this. I don't believe I belong there any more than they belong here. I am not interested in their beliefs. However, I actually think there is proselytizing on this forum sometimes in a kind of thinly disguised form in which theists ask leading questions about atheists' beliefs or downright challenge them during "debates."
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:27 PM
 
Location: SC
2,967 posts, read 4,196,079 times
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I refuse to read them. The things typed on religious forums are enough to make me feel like the only sane person walking among a sea of brain dead zombies. I also find that religion attracts negative people who cling to it in search for answers for their never ending self-imposed life struggles.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:40 PM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,546,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kab0906 View Post
... but find myself shaking my head at it all.

And how many times have I started to post, but just backed out of it? Lots.


How about you?
I won't go near them. One time there was a thread here that was moved there, and the nastiness by so-called "Christians" would have been funny in its hypocrisy if it wasn't so disgusting.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:48 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,891 posts, read 3,981,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
I won't go near them. One time there was a thread here that was moved there, and the nastiness by so-called "Christians" would have been funny in its hypocrisy if it wasn't so disgusting.
It helps me remember why I quit Christianity, and how I made the right decisions to not raise my kids in that type of atmosphere.

That being said, socio-cultural mythology is a most interesting field. Many on the A&A subforums understand that, and it is interesting to see how behaviors and beliefs underwrite the values of society. It would be an example of life imitating art.
I am disappointed that there are no good debaters of philosophy on the Chrisitian sub-forum. There are some interesting apologists, but no one who can break out of that mindset and discuss evolutionary philosophy from Plato to Paul.
Of course, those who can probably would not want to associate themselves with some of the regulars on the Christian subforum.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,999 posts, read 3,887,810 times
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Never.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:23 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,891 posts, read 3,981,409 times
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Reading some of the posts makes me remember how bad life was for me when I was growing up in a no fun fundy church.
I too shake my head and wonder how people can not know better, but reading some of the posts makes me glad I am not part of their movement, and reinforces that I did the right thing by walking away.

Reading the posts from some of the religiousites here makes me so glad that I am not a part of their faith.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,087 posts, read 12,030,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kab0906 View Post
... but find myself shaking my head at it all.

And how many times have I started to post, but just backed out of it? Lots.


How about you?
You and me both. When I read the other religious forums, I waver between amusement and sadness.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,147 posts, read 18,609,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
I am disappointed that there are no good debaters of philosophy on the Chrisitian sub-forum. There are some interesting apologists, but no one who can break out of that mindset and discuss evolutionary philosophy from Plato to Paul.
.

The atheist/theist debates ultimately come down to:
A) The possibilities are unlimited.
B) This is the only possibility....and it is sacred, making it profane to question it.

Not a lot of wiggle room there on either side...what would constitute a compromise?

I also wonder if it all isn't a matter of pathology of personality. The religious mindset seems somewhat congruent to the military mindset. All is clear and orderly, this is all you need to know, your decisions are made for you, not only are you not required to think about matters, it is discouraged.

There are personalities attracted to that life of discipline, of selecting one path and following it because it brings clarity and purpose to life, even if it is all artificial. Such a personality, when confronted with the questions of the cosmos, selects the solution which comes with clarity, order etc.

So a lot of the time when we seem to be debating cosmic truth, we are actually manifesting our personal comfort zones. I am an atheist, but there are all sorts of quirky aspects to my personality which I cannot defend with logic, apart from saying...it suits me.

Are we arguing with one another about changing beliefs, or personalities?

There probably wouldn't be any conflict if we all just kept our views to ourselves, but of course that will not happen because once more personality intrudes....some have a need to validate their atheism/theism by attempting to persuade others of the superiority of their thinking, and we manifest that by showing up in these forums. The atheist who invades the Christian forum, or the Christian who comes to convert the atheists on their forum would represent the ones with the strongest need for validation.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,099,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
So a lot of the time when we seem to be debating cosmic truth, we are actually manifesting our personal comfort zones.
My default comfort zone was actually theist, which is why I stayed with it well into my adult life. I just had life experiences that denied me that comfort, and then I had to do something about the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

It wasn't until I was out of the theist bubble for a few years that my default comfort zone shifted to where it is now. This is pretty normal human experience, it applies in areas other than metaphysical beliefs. For example it was a couple of years after my wife died before my thinking wasn't dominated by "she's not here anymore" for the simple reason that the brain keeps raising red flags when a very ingrained pattern is violated. Early on I found myself turning to an empty seat in the living room or car to remark about something to my non-existent wife. Now I frankly seldom think of her on a daily basis. I have moved on, I'm in a new relationship, live in a different part of the country, etc.

Our whole psyche is about adapting to and integrating with "new normals" as our situation changes, whether it's religion, grief and loss, career changes, relationship upheaval -- and whether chosen or not. I think most of the theist need to defend belief comes from inertia and the simple fact that the pain of changing is generally greater than the pain of not changing. On the atheist side, it depends on whether you are a former theist or not and how far out of theism you are and your reasons for changing. For someone like me, there is no going back, as the whole basis for sustaining faith is undermined and things, once known, cannot be un-known. For the atheist who has never considered the claims of theism seriously, it's possible there are a few converts to theism that could be peeled off, but past one's youth if you have not felt discontent with an irreligious existence, it's not very likely that you will later on, except in a few special cases.

We must remember that these forums are rather a special case where people come together for the specific purpose of debate. In the real world this dynamic seldom exists. I don't know or care about the metaphysical / religious (non)beliefs of my neighbors and they generally don't care about mine. We chat about things we have in common -- the development we live in, the community, hobbies and interests and work backgrounds that we share in common, etc. If theism works for some of those folks, I'm fine with that. If they want to talk about my thoughts on those topics and I think they can handle it, we'll talk. Mostly we don't.
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