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Old 10-25-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,997 posts, read 18,573,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Grandstander I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the question you posed.

What would satisfy you as unassailable proof of a god?
I can't think of anything, that is why I started the thread, to see if anyone could. As I noted earlier, it might be the only way to unquestionably recognize a god would be to be a god yourself. In all other scenarios we will always run up against the problem of how something inferior would be able to recognize that something superior is the ultimate superiority as opposed to a degree of superiority. A human and a dog can stand before a goldfish without the goldfish having any notion of a difference between their intelligence and capacities.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,697 posts, read 23,668,169 times
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I saw a psychic on TV the other day. Now I don't believe in them and I know people who claim to have psychic powers but they have never proven to me that those powers are real. Now if someone who claimed to have them, someone I didn't know and didn't know me who claimed to have psychic powers told me something about me they couldn't possible know or predict my future with 100% accuracy, I just might start to believe.

Maybe it would be the same way with my believing in God. The being that would be God would have to prove it to me but it would take an awful lot to do that.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:10 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,257,021 times
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An additional thought.

Remember that to our pets we humans must seem like gods. We care and feed them and only require devotion in return.

Does that mean that we are gods?

Follow the logic.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,467,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
The otherwise largely forgettable Star Trek V: The Undiscovered Country weighed in on this when a godlike being is discovered at the center of the galaxy, posing as god, but alas, it is really a malevolent being that has been imprisoned there. Gotta watch out when dealing with powerful beings.

I think this gets at the basic problem of god's coyness. If he hasn't unambiguously revealed himself by now, there is less and less reason to believe any supposed revelation going forward, more and more reason to question it. Just come out from behind the curtain already, or else you must have something to hide. Maybe you don't exist, maybe you're not all your billing says you are.
Too much common sense here! Too funny also.
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,999 posts, read 3,884,479 times
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Nothing..The question itself makes the premise of a god that much more implausible. Would an extra terrestrial be considered a god? The whole god the thing is such a primitive human attribute. Hopefully, we'll outgrow it soon.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:58 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,281,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
You write the above as though there is some prevailing rule.
If I thought there was, I would have said there was. Please try next time to respond to what I actually said. Not some tangential irrelevance that you invented yourself and put in my mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
If the question had been "What would you accept as proof that my dog can talk?" all that would be required is your providing what sort of evidence you would demand before you would consider believing that my dog can talk.
And once again that is not the procedure I would subscribe to. My answer would, as I said before, be "Do not ask me what I would accept as proof. Inform me of what has convinced YOU that your dog can talk".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
That makes no sense, your complaint here makes no sense.
You not understanding my point is not synonymous with my point making no sense. It makes sense, I have just failed to present it thus far in a form that you can understand.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,997 posts, read 18,573,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post


It makes sense, I have just failed to present it thus far in a form that you can understand.
Good plan.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:02 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,281,714 times
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I was not aware that was the plan. My goal is always to present my arguments in a form the target can understand. If they fail to, as you have here, then I modify the presentation until such time as they sink in.

Again the point I am making, on topic, is that if someone is making a claim then what convinced THEM of that claim is likely the best first port of call. Not what you think might convince you of it.

There are many claims for example, especially in science, where I could never have even begun to guess what the evidence would be until it was actually presented to me.

Thankfully in science they do not go around simply saying "I think X now what would convince you of this?" but in fact explain exactly how and why they reached their conclusions. And often they do so in ways I never would have thought of myself.

That is the problem with asking people what would convince them of a god. I simply have no idea what evidence there is, or might be, to support such a claim. All I know is no one has shown it to me yet. And all I can do when people suggest there is such an entity is ask them why THEY think so. Not why I might.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:25 PM
 
Location: rock island, illinois
67 posts, read 164,082 times
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"Proof of God"?
Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:45 PM
 
608 posts, read 530,487 times
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I have not read the whole thread yet, but I like to ask atheists to first come forth with your concept of what is God.

Because if you have the wrong concept of what is God then you are not hitting the God that is in relation to mankind and the universe, the creator of everything that is not God Himself.

Now, this is what I expect but I am not happy with atheists, they will at least some insist on stating that they don't have to acquire any concept of God because they don't accept His existence.

The way I see it, that is a most illogical position, for how can you deny the existence of something in the first place you don't even care to know what it is you are denying the existence of?

So, dear atheists here, please -- and forgive me if I give you the impression that I am imposing on your reasoning capability, please present your concept of what is God in relation to man and the physical universe.


Ryrge
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