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Old 11-02-2013, 05:08 PM
 
608 posts, read 530,291 times
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Okay, you accept my concept of God, namely, in relation to man and the physical universe the creator of everything that is not God Himself.

First we agree on the concept of God, then we go forward to look for Him in the realm of existence, is that all right with you?


Now, about evidence, can you please tell readers first what is evidence in regard to whether it is a thing we know to be existing or whatever else.



Ryrge
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,086,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
........

BTW, did you give up on the Kalam argument? I thought we were going to discuss origins?

-NoCapo
Oh quit sidetracking. Only theists do that.

Right Vizio?
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:14 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,086,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
I have not read the whole thread yet, but I like to ask atheists to first come forth with your concept of what is God.
.......

Ryrge

You just don't get it do you? An atheist has no concept of God.

That sort of the definition of an atheist. We just believe in one less God than you do, unless you believe in Thor, Zeus, Mithras, or Horus. You don't believe in any of those Gods do you?

You see if you do not, then you too are an atheist.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,655,251 times
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Sorry you are not happy with atheists. It is not up to any atheist to make you happy. I am not happy with theists coming to an atheist board with their holier-than-thou attitude telling me I must explain my thoughts and justify my beliefs or lack thereof. Who are you to say you are not happy with the very core of the opinion of the people who support this forum?

Therein, for me, especially, although by no means completely, lies the sheer audacity.
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Old 11-02-2013, 06:19 PM
 
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Lemme put it this way.

Let's say you had a girlfriend that you thought was cheating on you. How would she prove that she was not unfaithful?

Proving the unfaithfulness is easy (just produce a picture of her with a guy), proving faith is tricky.

You'd have to record her and stalk her 24/7. Proof of God? The same consistency. If over the course of your life, you found that thing generally worked out (or if God is evil, that they generally didn't). Essentially, that your life had some purpose or something.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:20 AM
 
608 posts, read 530,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge [ as quoted by cupper3 ]
I have not read the whole thread yet, but I like to ask atheists to first come forth with your concept of what is God.
.......

Ryrge


You just don't get it do you? An atheist has no concept of God.

That sort of the definition of an atheist. We just believe in one less God than you do, unless you believe in Thor, Zeus, Mithras, or Horus. You don't believe in any of those Gods do you?

You see if you do not, then you too are an atheist.

Yes, I get it very clearly, yes sir: you as an atheist have no concept of God.

But you also ask me whether I believe any of those Gods like Thor, Zeus, Mithras, or Horus.

So, you do have a concept that applies to those Gods: Thor, Zeus, Mithras, or Horus.

May I then request of you to tell me what is the concept in your mind that applies to them all four Gods: Thor, Zeus, Mithras, or Horus?



Ryrge
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
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....that - people have called them gods?
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:52 AM
 
608 posts, read 530,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Lemme put it this way.

Let's say you had a girlfriend that you thought was cheating on you. How would she prove that she was not unfaithful?

Proving the unfaithfulness is easy (just produce a picture of her with a guy), proving faith is tricky.

You'd have to record her and stalk her 24/7. Proof of God? The same consistency. If over the course of your life, you found that thing generally worked out (or if God is evil, that they generally didn't). Essentially, that your life had some purpose or something.

"Let's say you had a girlfriend that you thought was cheating on you. How would she prove that she was not unfaithful?"


If I were the girlfriend I would invite my boyfriend to first work with me to come to a concurred on concept om what is unfaithfulness.

Next, I would invite my boyfriend to work with me to come to a concurred on concept of what is proof, and how we would concur on how to arrive at proof, and also when is proof already sufficient for him so that he would already stop thinking that I am cheating on him.

Since however unfaithfulness is the direct opposite of faithfulness, first and foremost, I would invite my boyfriend to work with me so that we would come to a concurred on concept of what is faithfulness.



Ryrge
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:05 AM
 
608 posts, read 530,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The standard position of atheists is that the theists assert and declare, but do so in the absence of evidence or proof that a god, or the god, exists. "Show us the proof" we write....but...

We have Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

So, even if there was a sudden global wide display of an entity which is capable of performing things we believe outside natural law, would that be god or would it just be an entity with abilities outside of our understanding? If some alien entity made the stars in the night sky move about and spell out "I am your god", would that be sufficient or might we still be suspecting that the alien's actual ability was to plant illusions in our brains?

How would we know if we had at last met a god...or met the god of gods? What could satisfy you as unassailable proof of a god rather than an extremely advanced alien magician?

I would propose that first we have to work together both theists and atheists to come to concurrence on what is the concept of God we are talking about to be existing from the part of theists, or not existing from the part of atheists.

Then we have to work together to come to concurrence on what is evidence, what is proof, and how much of evidence is sufficient for atheists to come to admit that there is already proof for the existence of God as per the concept concurred on.



Ryrge
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,892 posts, read 18,557,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
I would propose that first we have to work together both theists and atheists to come to concurrence on what is the concept of God we are talking about to be existing from the part of theists, or not existing from the part of atheists.

Then we have to work together to come to concurrence on what is evidence, what is proof, and how much of evidence is sufficient for atheists to come to admit that there is already proof for the existence of God as per the concept concurred on.



Ryrge
That would be a project unrelated to the question posed in this thread.

All that is required is for posters to describe what they would have to be presented with before they would be willing to say...."Yes, that proves that there is a god."...however they personally define god. If another poster then argues that it doesn't prove a god because you have misdefined god, then you can take it from there and argue about the correct definition....not start from there. If the answer is "nothing would prove that to me", then that is that poster's answer.
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