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Old 11-03-2013, 11:18 AM
 
608 posts, read 530,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander in post #2
The standard position of atheists is that the theists assert and declare, but do so in the absence of evidence or proof that a god, or the god, exists. "Show us the proof" we write....but...

We have Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

So, even if there was a sudden global wide display of an entity which is capable of performing things we believe outside natural law, would that be god or would it just be an entity with abilities outside of our understanding? If some alien entity made the stars in the night sky move about and spell out "I am your god", would that be sufficient or might we still be suspecting that the alien's actual ability was to plant illusions in our brains?

How would we know if we had at last met a god...or met the god of gods? What could satisfy you as unassailable proof of a god rather than an extremely advanced alien magician?

Personally, I do not need or seek unassailable proof of a god. There is none and, as you outline, if any of the things you point out happened, you also answer your own question. Just because we cannot explain something at this moment does not mean that there is a god. Just something that we don't understand.

There is unassailable proof for God's existence, if both theists and atheists will work together to come to concurrence on a concept of God, of evidence, of proof, and on how much evidence is needed for atheists to admit that God exists.


In all earnestness and sincerity and without any arrogance but in all humility I am disposed to work with any atheists to come to concurrence on the concept of God, of evidence, of sufficiency of evidence for atheists to admit the existence of God.



Ryrge
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
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I think many if not most of us would say that we don't believe in any "concept of god" except one so watered down and meaningless that the word "god" is no better at describing it than any of 50 other words. If you have to keep changing the definition until you can get somebody to agree or believe, then what's the point? If you expand the definition of "faithful" until you get to the point that anything can be considered faithful, then why bother to consider the concept at all?
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:33 AM
 
608 posts, read 530,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
[ in post #5 ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51
Just because we cannot explain something at this moment does not mean that there is a god. Just something that we don't understand.
The otherwise largely forgettable Star Trek V: The Undiscovered Country weighed in on this when a godlike being is discovered at the center of the galaxy, posing as god, but alas, it is really a malevolent being that has been imprisoned there. Gotta watch out when dealing with powerful beings.

I think this gets at the basic problem of god's coyness. If he hasn't unambiguously revealed himself by now, there is less and less reason to believe any supposed revelation going forward, more and more reason to question it. Just come out from behind the curtain already, or else you must have something to hide. Maybe you don't exist, maybe you're not all your billing says you are.

Man can prove the existence of God from thinking on reason, if both theists and atheists will work together to first come to concurrence on the concept of God, on the concept of evidence, on the concept of proof, and on how much evidence is sufficient for atheists to admit the existence of God.

In all humility but with earnestness I am disposed to work with atheists to come to a concurred on concept of God, etc.




Ryrge
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
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Let's start here, Ryrge. Share with us your concept of god. No games, no tricks...just put it out there.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:42 AM
 
608 posts, read 530,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
I think many if not most of us would say that we don't believe in any "concept of god" except one so watered down and meaningless that the word "god" is no better at describing it than any of 50 other words. If you have to keep changing the definition until you can get somebody to agree or believe, then what's the point? If you expand the definition of "faithful" until you get to the point that anything can be considered faithful, then why bother to consider the concept at all?

Well, it is possible that atheists will not agree with theists on the concept of God, and that is an impasse.

Then we have to work together, both theists and atheists to work together to concur on what are the rational grounds for the impasse, or psychological grounds for the impasse.



I am in all humility and earnestness disposed to work with atheists on coming to concurrence on a concept of God, etc., and later should an impasse surfaces, to work with atheists to come to concurrence on the rational grounds and the psychological grounds why there is an impasse.




Ryrge
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:45 AM
 
608 posts, read 530,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
Let's start here, Ryrge. Share with us your concept of god. No games, no tricks...just put it out there.

Here is my concept of God:
In concept God for myself as a theist of the Christian faith, in His relation to man and the physical universe God is the creator of everything that is not God Himself.



Ryrge
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
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That's it? Create and done?

What proof was required for you to believe that? How old were you when you were presented with that proof?
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:03 PM
 
608 posts, read 530,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
That's it? Create and done?

What proof was required for you to believe that? How old were you when you were presented with that proof?


Forgive me, but you accept the concept of God from me? just the concept, then we will work together further on.

And again but forgive me, if you do not accept my concept of God, please give me your concept of God.




Ryrge
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
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I was asking a clarifying question. Your concept of god is as a creator and nothing more? Is that a sentient creator or a creative force?
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:15 PM
 
608 posts, read 530,487 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
I was asking a clarifying question. Your concept of god is as a creator and nothing more? Is that a sentient creator or a creative force?

You are asking a clarifying question, okay, God is in relation to man and universe the creator of everything that is not God Himself.

Please, may I now request of you to present your concept of God.

You see, and forgive me, I am trying my best to be earnest and humble instead of being arrogant.

I have presented my concept of God.

It is now your turn to present your concept of God, unless you accept the concept of God from me, then we can already move forward to look for God in the totality of existence or in the physical universe for a starter.




Ryrge





Ryrge
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