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Old 10-28-2013, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,436 posts, read 12,165,241 times
Reputation: 16654

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
Thank you!

Also, I'm not really sure of the OP's intent here. Generally we atheists do not request proof of any deities unless or until someone gets in our face with their pronouncements that one exists. Or, at least I don't. I don't go to believer forums to get into it with them.

But you'd better believe that if someone starts brandishing a bible at me, I'm going to roll my eyes, tell them to prove it, and walk away. No, I don't want to hear their "proof." They have faith, not proof, and there is a big difference between the two.
Sigh...it is discouraging to me sometimes in this day and age that someone would
not see that this Bible brandishing turns people off AND they actually think no "man in power"
has altered the Bible. I don't get discouraged at much thinking everything is as it is supposed to be...
But this does get to me, regretfully, still.

I always say to them...No one has altered the Bible? It is verbatim as God dictated it?
Go to Psalm 46...count down 46 words, then up 46 words...you come up with "shake and spear'...
King's James homage to William's being 46 yrs old. Only in the KJV.

No, no one DARED edited, deleted, added anything to the Holy Bible...sarcasm alert.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
2,435 posts, read 2,847,661 times
Reputation: 2581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
If someone has not experienced God...I see no reason to believe in One. Seeing is believing.

I do think if someone says they have seen a UfO...same thing as someone
saying they have seen God...I say, say to them "Ok, that's nice, I haven't so
I will wait til I do ... or not." Believe in your own experience.

Now if what they have seen...love, God, an alien, has changed that person for the better...
I would think, " Cool, interesting." And that's about it. Or maybe.."if I were supposed to feel or see that...I guess I would have...it obviously was meant for them."

However, I wouldn't have enough interest to attack them or doubt them...I bet they
haven't had some experiences I have had either.

Btw, No Capo, some people count how many times someone uses an "I" sentence.
I notice how many times someone points a finger and says "You" sentences.
You kinda broke the meter.
Questions or discussions like this are always two-way streets as you seem to be aware of.
We all have free will to choose our own lifestyle and destiny, whether we believe that volition originates from a supreme being or within ourselves. But since I also agree that "seeing is believing", at least typically, I am moved to also illustrate that I believe as well in other invisible, but no less real things as thought, gravity, wind and electricity, which prevents me from insisting that something like spirit beings or creatures cannot exist for a purpose.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,461,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Sounds like you're saying you wouldn't care so much what someone believes...
It is their pushing those beliefs into laws and such.
Well, sure, who wants that!!?!
I wouldn't care about proof so much I would just tell them to sh-ve it and stop
pushing it on ME!
So ok you want them to prove it. Good luck with that. :wink:
I'd have more luck with telling them to simply quittit...believe what you want, don't lay it on ME!
When it comes to laws, you don't just say "quit it". There has to be proof of a state interest in having a law, and continuing to enforce a law. "God says" is not a reason. If just saying "quit it" fixed everything, I would already be legally married. But since religion got their beliefs instituted into the laws that I have to live by, I have to fight to be granted equal protection of the laws that every American citizen is constitutionally guaranteed.

So, as soon as "Christians" keep their beliefs out of the laws I have to live by I will leave them alone to their personal beliefs. Until then, I will continue to ask them for proof that this deity, that they are forcing me to live by it's edicts actually exists.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,436 posts, read 12,165,241 times
Reputation: 16654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinionated View Post
... I am moved to also illustrate that I believe as well in other invisible, but no less
real things as thought, gravity, wind and electricity, which prevents me from insisting that
something like spirit beings or creatures cannot exist for a purpose.
See, this is more of what I could have said.
We agree.

Prove thoughts exist, prove love exists...kinda the same thing.
(And "love"? Talk about it being chemistry in my brain!!! Wowsa!
Also, my gut and heart!
Do I pass it off as just a chemical raction in my brain? Nope...but it is
certainly THAT, too...and very delicious.)

It seems those pushy religious people are what is more at issue.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,436 posts, read 12,165,241 times
Reputation: 16654
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
When it comes to laws, you don't just say "quit it". There has to be proof of a state interest in having a law, and continuing to enforce a law. "God says" is not a reason. If just saying "quit it" fixed everything, I would already be legally married. But since religion got their beliefs instituted into the laws that I have to live by, I have to fight to be granted equal protection of the laws that every American citizen is constitutionally guaranteed.

So, as soon as "Christians" keep their beliefs out of the laws I have to live by I will leave them alone to their personal beliefs. Until then, I will continue to ask them for proof that this deity, that they are forcing me to live by it's edicts actually exists.
Gotcha...

( I don't happen to be one of those pushing any laws on people, btw....probably
why I wasn't so aware of the problem...don't care about gays or marriage licenses for
heteros either, personally...old hippie that I am.)
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,999 posts, read 3,886,661 times
Reputation: 2372
If you've seen or experienced "god", you might want to check you meds.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:49 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,285,422 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Haha! I offend most Christians period...so I keep my mouth shut.
Not a choice I would ever make. The theist penchant for acting offended in order to keep you shut up has long been a tactic in the history of theism. Thankfully it is a tactic that works less and less in todays world. Even with a muslim underclass backing up their offense with violence and a christian under class backing it up with legal rhetoric. Their constant need to feign offence in order to stifle criticism is one that is failing them more and more as time goes on.
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:35 AM
 
12,273 posts, read 9,910,942 times
Reputation: 15871
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Poor logic.

Don't people use their personal influences to shape their opinions on various topics? So what if that influence is their education, their culture, their parents, or their spiritual beliefs?

Don't all parents teach their children whatever it is they believe? About all manner of topics? Nature, history, politics, health, etc. Why should spiritual beliefs be any different? Aren't atheists going to teach atheism to their children?
As for the bold, I would hope not. I would hope that they would teach them to think, to ascertain the truth of things, THEIR belief, themselves.
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,436 posts, read 12,165,241 times
Reputation: 16654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
If you've seen or experienced "god", you might want to check your meds.
Ya mean if your meds are making you exp God get more!!!
Yes, I agree!!
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,094,403 times
Reputation: 6081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinionated View Post
But since I also agree that "seeing is believing", at least typically, I am moved to also illustrate that I believe as well in other invisible, but no less real things as thought, gravity, wind and electricity, which prevents me from insisting that something like spirit beings or creatures cannot exist for a purpose.
False equivalence. Wind, electromagnetic fields and gravity are invisible but measurable and explicable in terms of known natural effects. Other things like the flow of lymph fluid is simply hidden but while requiring more effort to quantify, is still quantifiable.

Spirit is none of the above.
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