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Old 11-22-2013, 01:52 PM
 
1,474 posts, read 3,090,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
I don't care what fantasies or beliefs you have in your head, and keep there. The problem arises when you attempt to impose those fantasies on me, primarily through the passage of laws. I also find it totally unacceptable when you use these fantasies or beliefs to demonstrate your belief based hate upon any group of people. Why do your care whom another person loves, but christians in their belief based hatred have imposed this hate into law.

Many do see their task as cleaning up the world, ridding countries of their barbarian belief systems and replacing them with their special and often barbarian belief system, through missionaries.

I have an old lapel button from the era of the moral majority, that clearly states why this failed. "The Moral Majority is Neither"


Perhaps that is your perspective, but in many parts of the country, that is not the reality. NC just imposed religious hatred into the state constitution.

Based on your moniker, I'm going to guess that you and I are the same age (born in 1946), and if you went to public school, you were probably lead in prayer in school. What if you didn't believe in it then (I didn't) and what if the teacher tried to chastise you because you didn't bow your head and recite words that were meaningless and counter to reason. What if your homeroom teacher had a show of hands every Monday for those that went to church that week. Being an algebra teacher she also plotted graphs with the data, and singled your out specifically as the reason 100% was never achieved.

So yes, my position does lean toward being
vituperative as I find the actions of many so called christians to be contumelious to my rights and to be bluntly honest, to my intelligence. You (theists) really expect me to believe such nonsense?

Glad you find comfort in your delusion, just don't attempt to impose any of it on me in law, deed or word.

(*you - context, meaning theists in general, regardless of what they call their imaginary friend.)
Sorry you are so angry. Not good for you.

However, in our political system, ANY one, ANY group, has the right to work inside the system to have their beliefs enacted into various laws. I would not say that Christians have been very successful in that endeavor but their right (I am not political personally) does exist. People like you would deny them that right which I find scary but it is true you do. Your crowd has been very successful in passing laws (court rulings) pressing christianity out of the public places. You have no problem telling Christians how they should live and behave. I find that enormously hypocritical which is an appellation often given to people of faith.

As well, there is a big tent with Christians. There are parts of the faith who do embrace far more liberal stances on social issues such as you mention with same sex relationships. So, to paint all Christians with the same brush is in error at best.

This situation is an ancient one. It will continue. For my part, I do not expect you to believe anything. In my theology, you do not have (yet) the ability to believe. It is God given. In fact, I expect you to behave in words and likely deeds as you have demonstrated.

Yes. We are the same age and I know exactly what you are talking about from my days in school. I never was able to raise my hand for church attendance or some other family items either. We were one of the early dysfunctional families so I had a jump on things. Today, very common.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:27 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 25,002,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946 View Post
Sorry you are so angry. Not good for you.

However, in our political system, ANY one, ANY group, has the right to work inside the system to have their beliefs enacted into various laws. I would not say that Christians have been very successful in that endeavor but their right (I am not political personally) does exist. People like you would deny them that right which I find scary but it is true you do. Your crowd has been very successful in passing laws (court rulings) pressing christianity out of the public places. You have no problem telling Christians how they should live and behave. I find that enormously hypocritical which is an appellation often given to people of faith.

As well, there is a big tent with Christians. There are parts of the faith who do embrace far more liberal stances on social issues such as you mention with same sex relationships. So, to paint all Christians with the same brush is in error at best.

This situation is an ancient one. It will continue. For my part, I do not expect you to believe anything. In my theology, you do not have (yet) the ability to believe. It is God given. In fact, I expect you to behave in words and likely deeds as you have demonstrated.

Yes. We are the same age and I know exactly what you are talking about from my days in school. I never was able to raise my hand for church attendance or some other family items either. We were one of the early dysfunctional families so I had a jump on things. Today, very common.
Angry no, but stubbornly resisting willful ignorance of others base solely on a single book of absurd fairy tales and a system (organized religion) that has play these people like a cheap fiddle, for power and profit. Better to be angry than the victim of the greatest con job in the history of mankind. At least I am true to my self and not the victim of centuries of ancient (and ignorant) superstition.

Consider how you would feel if another religion became the majority and persecuted your because your beliefs were different. Get down off your self-rightness pedestal of ignorance and put yourself the shoes of others. Or are you such a weak person that you would capitulate and start figuring out which way is east so you could pray properly, while your wife dons her burqa.

You're not angry, because you are not threatened, yet. Another sect of willful ignorance and hate is grow fast and gaining power. We won't live long enough to see it, but I fear our grandkids will.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:44 PM
 
1,474 posts, read 3,090,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Angry no, but stubbornly resisting willful ignorance of others base solely on a single book of absurd fairy tales and a system (organized religion) that has play these people like a cheap fiddle, for power and profit. Better to be angry than the victim of the greatest con job in the history of mankind. At least I am true to my self and not the victim of centuries of ancient (and ignorant) superstition.

Consider how you would feel if another religion became the majority and persecuted your because your beliefs were different. Get down off your self-rightness pedestal of ignorance and put yourself the shoes of others. Or are you such a weak person that you would capitulate and start figuring out which way is east so you could pray properly, while your wife dons her burqa.

You're not angry, because you are not threatened, yet. Another sect of willful ignorance and hate is grow fast and gaining power. We won't live long enough to see it, but I fear our grandkids will.
There are always threats from here and there. Life is a threat. It is my Christian faith that gives me hope and no small degree of peace. If it were not the Moslems, it was the communists. If not them it is secularists with their philosophies not the least of which is science can solve any thing. That has really worked out nicely. As for organized religion, I see very little organization and much more chaos. There is hardly unanimity among any of the faiths dominating the world of religion.

I would suggest that our world is in a serious state of anarchy wrought by the religion of economics and politics. Blaming religion doesn't work seems to me. Of course you might know that the scriptures say: "true religion, pure and undefiled, is caring for widows and orphans." I think that message is clear and so is the failure to achieve it.
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Old 11-23-2013, 03:49 AM
 
39,339 posts, read 10,954,803 times
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It seems that it your Christian Faith that has given you a quick and easy false answer so you cannot contribute and in fact oppose trying to find better answers.

Of course people have the right to try to get laws enacted but this cannot be rule by popular opinion. If something can be shown to be without valid foundation, is has to be rejected, no matter how it may have caught the public fancy.
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Old 11-23-2013, 04:17 AM
 
258 posts, read 182,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946 View Post
It is my Christian faith that gives me hope and no small degree of peace.
One of the reasons your religion evolved. People with hope and peace have a better chance of survival than people without hope and peace so they were selected for. It worked fine up till now but now we understand why people are wired for belief and that it has nothing to do with the actual existence of whatever they believe in.
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Chicago
319 posts, read 502,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946 View Post
There are always threats from here and there. Life is a threat. It is my Christian faith that gives me hope and no small degree of peace. If it were not the Moslems, it was the communists. If not them it is secularists with their philosophies not the least of which is science can solve any thing. That has really worked out nicely. As for organized religion, I see very little organization and much more chaos. There is hardly unanimity among any of the faiths dominating the world of religion.

I would suggest that our world is in a serious state of anarchy wrought by the religion of economics and politics. Blaming religion doesn't work seems to me. Of course you might know that the scriptures say: "true religion, pure and undefiled, is caring for widows and orphans." I think that message is clear and so is the failure to achieve it.
Moderator cut: delete

First off, the "moslems" are basically an offshoot of christianity. Flavored in a more southern Arab peninsula way. See, they didn't like the northern religion that became so popular (jesus worship). At the time there of the quaran inception, they didn't even have a standard arabic such that they could have a single binding document due to a fundamental lack of cohesive poitical/social structure, many were nomads. They hungered for a national identity and were looking for something aside from roaming around tending their animals to believe in, one that wasn't written in the northern languages, and one that was something that could be a unifying force to many warring tribes. Almost everything that islam is based on is completely uncreative judeo-christian trash, which was all borrowed anyway previously from the zoroastrians. Make sure while you do research on this topic, note how judaism and islam have basically identical animal treatment practices.

I'm not sure what you are talking about communists, wasn't baby jesus the ultimate communist?

Science solves many things Moderator cut: delete. This below article has some great insight, and there are many other sites that talk about this type of research, which you never know when you start trying to answer a question, if it isn't going to have truly amazing outcomes. The below URL isn't the best formatted "story of cisplatin" but regardless it is something to search given the public lack of understanding on how science can have unforseen benefits when researching something not-intended to be an anti-cancer drug.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articl...-of-Cisplatin/

The serious state of anarchy doesn't exist. While there is a problem of greed, and likely the primary problem of our time, that is in no way shape or form going to be solved by religion. Throughout the course of history the upper 1-2% have been the clergy/royalty. They just figured out they had to modernize and become CEO's or hedge fund gamblers as many people have access to information and ignore the completely false fable books that aren't even a good translation of the languages they were originally written in.

Widows and orphans? What does that mean exactly? Aren't there ENOUGH safety nets in place already for them through the government? The impoverished children in this country aren't orphans. Their parents are wal-mart employees, or others making minimum wage. What next, Wal-prayer?

Dear staff of wal-mart, thank you for attending our daily morning prayer, we pray to *insert deity here (though mine is baby jesus)*, that we hope someone (but not wal-mart) finally pays them under-educated welfare slobs that have slave-labor jobs in businesses that aren't wal-mart a livable wage. Though those rubes stand there dealing with child vomit, cleaning bathrooms left worse than an I-80 gas station, directing yokels lucky enough to have a nepotistic job at daddy's construction firm to the nearest Miley Cyrus thermos, and who made the crippling life-mistake of majoring in something like the humanities rather than something useful like petroleum engineering, please, please, oh *deity* give them a chance, and by that I mean $2 for a powerball ticket and/or a can of beans and praise capitalism!

Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-23-2013 at 05:35 AM.. Reason: personal attacks against another poster are not tolerated
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:18 AM
 
1,474 posts, read 3,090,454 times
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Too many to reply to all and doubtful any are expecting. I am not going to change any minds nor is it my mission. I was once an unbeliever---fervently. Now, I believe. One day, for everyone, we will die. Either the scriptures are accurate or they are not. I think they are. Happy Thanksgiving to all.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:42 AM
 
258 posts, read 182,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946 View Post
Too many to reply to all and doubtful any are expecting. I am not going to change any minds nor is it my mission. I was once an unbeliever---fervently. Now, I believe. One day, for everyone, we will die. Either the scriptures are accurate or they are not.
You mean your scriptures are accurate. You're not the only one who has scriptures...
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:30 AM
 
1,474 posts, read 3,090,454 times
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Originally Posted by ArtieE View Post
You mean your scriptures are accurate. You're not the only one who has scriptures...
Yes. Quite right. Judeo-Christian scriptures. Thanks for the clarifying comment.
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 168,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946 View Post
There is hardly unanimity among any of the faiths dominating the world of religion.
have you considered it's because of dogmatic religion and the illogical fallacy of placing faith based claims in a box separated from opinion based on conjecture conjured up by ignorant people who didn't know what we have learned since?
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