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Old 11-03-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,970 posts, read 6,508,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
I know the difference between right and wrong. -> Based on what? If there is no God, we are just powder. Right and wrong are just metaphors then.
My intelligence!

Dumb question (just like this thread) and I may add, insulting. Don't do that. It is not nice.

There is no god, period.
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,387 posts, read 2,167,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
Sorry but the Golden Rule is bullsh*t based. "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself." Ok. How about if you adopt two children and have sex with them. ???
So when you were a kid you wanted to be molested?
What is with the crazy theist posters that come to this forum? They ignore most questions asked of them, and then talk about molesting children.
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:41 AM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,641,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
Sorry but the Golden Rule is bullsh*t based. "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself." Ok. How about if you adopt two children and have sex with them. ???
So what the heck would this guy do with Luke 6:31 and Matt.7:12?

'Treat others in the same way that you would want them to treat you.'

'In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets.'

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Old 11-03-2013, 10:03 AM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,641,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
Hi all atheists, what answer would you give to the following questions?
Hi Theist!

Quote:
1- Why is there something rather than nothing (nothing being the non-existence of anything at all)?
Who knows! We are here though so something always existed - I'll go with what we know to exist - matter/energy is eternal - rather than Bronze age speculation from ignorance.

Quote:
2-If there is no God, is there good and evil, also called moral values? (No, there isn't) How could you come to the conclusion that helping is good and killing is bad?
Evil, no! 'Good and Bad', yes!

The fact that you have no idea why there are reasons for why we label things good and bad shows me that either you are completely blind (willingly) or completely ignorant of the issue.

Let me see - so w/out God there is no way that humans would come to the conclusion that walking up to a homeless mother and her child only to rip the child from her arms and proceed to kill it is no better than giving her a kind word and $20. W/ out God it is just realtive and with God it only makes sense to not kill the child but give her $20.

Sir, you have serious issues to work through.

As others have noted do a little study of morality and evolution.

Quote:
3- If you believe that God is just a human idea and doesn't exist, than you have to consider that the moral values are also just human ideas and are not true in reality. If that is so, being you someone who was taught about the moral values since your childhood, how could you believe in your perspective of reality, once your own mind was built based in something that isn't actually true (moral values) by your own perspective?

Thanks!
Our moral values are just that - OUR MORAL VALUES.

They are real in that sense since they are grounded in our biological evolution, experience, and reason/logic.

As such your second part of the question does not apply even though it does not make much sense.

Ask a child, who has reached the age where they have a moral sense, two questions:

If the rule was 'do not chew gum in class' and the teacher said that it was then ok would it be ok to then chew gum in class? They anser in variably - yes.

If the rule was 'don't punch your classmates in face' and the teacher said it was ok would it then be ok to punch your classmates in the face? They answer invariably - no.

Why? When you put your mind as to why this is please get back to me in order to see if you are capable of understanding a little something regarding morality apart from your authoritative biases.

Your Welcome!
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,970 posts, read 6,508,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
Seems like this is a good place to post this again:

Here's another:


Al Sharpton Gets Hitchslapped - YouTube
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,746,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
That isn't true. You can just be good and atheist because you grew up in a society that already have these values. And it came from religion. Check "The Abolition of Man", by C. S. Lewis.
How can you judge C.S. Lewis' book when you can't even judge between helping and killing?
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:17 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,746,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
1- They don't answer that. I know the theories from Hawking and Krauss.

2- Communists killed more than all religions together in just one century. They were not religious at all. It doesn't matter if church fails sometimes or not, the thing is there is no moral values without religion, simply because there is nothing in nature that affirms the values.

3- Pedophily was considered bad by religion, for example. None atheists deffended that before Christ.
1. I know the theories from theists, they don't answer you question either. However, the Void (your nothing) is more capable than a Demiurge because the Void is actually illogical, which makes it supernatural.

2. What are the statistics? Communists killed murders, terrorists, government dissenters, etc. God killed randomly and for selfish reasons. are you saying that "if the my chosen King does it, it's not illegal"? Saying communists killed... is like saying "Israelites killed..." it really has nothing to do with the fact that God commits the most abortions by far, those babies aren't saved. It doesn't matter if people fail sometimes, there is no moral values without people, simply because it is only people that affirm the values.

3. Pedophilia was considered bad by people, religion (especially the ones of the Jews) considered pedophilia fine when God did it to Mary, when Muhammad did it to an orphan he wed, when in the Old Testament the daughters were pedophiled by their drunk father that God loved and when Lot offered his daughters to the populace that was looking to know the identities of the foreigners but Lot played a joke with the word "know" which ancient Jews had grossly sexualized. Polygamy and Slavery was also considered fine by religion, not so by 20th century communism trying to force equality.

When did Jesus BenJoseph defend or oppose pedophilia or slavery? Many none-religious opposed pedophilia, like Socrates wasn't for pedophilia. History of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:26 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,746,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
1- That doesn't answer it.
2- If there is no God, there is no good or bad. Everything is just powder.
3- There are plenty of evidences about Christianity. Many historians like Martin Hengel show that, so my morals come from it. The entire base for moral values that human have came from the egipts, greeks and the judaic-christianity culture. Read the epic book from C. S. Lewis called The Abolition of Men.
1. that is the point. God doesn't answer your question because it comes with no good testable evidence and with even more questions. Since God is something... how did God come from nothing? If something always existed the atheists can believe in any other something, like Karma or Space-substance or anything else.

2. If there is a God, but no objective good or bad, Than everything is still just powder, since your God makes up and disposes what is good and bad.

3. No evidences about Christianity, I checked them out. Martin Hengel doesn't explain it. I wonder how the Chinese got their moral values. It seems you are practicing book-worship on C. S. Lewis, he doesn't explain it either. Read the epic book Candide by Voltaire and also read the epic book Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 11-03-2013 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,688,776 times
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The only question I could make any sense out of the way they were worded was the second one. And to that I would answer

Quote:
2-If there is no God, is there good and evil, also called moral values? (No, there isn't) How could you come to the conclusion that helping is good and killing is bad?
If belief in God has shown me anything, it is that killing is good because so many are killed in his name. Just look at all the holy wars, jihads, territorial disputes and other excuses people have used to slaughter one another in the name of God. Not to mention Crusades and the wholesale wiping out of "inferior" races in the name of land grabs and the conquering of indigent peoples of differing nations "discovered" by devote religionists.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:33 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,746,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
I certainly know you never read the epic book from C. S. Lewis called "The Abolition of Man". Check it. I The ideas of democracy, etc, are not in the Bible because these things are politics. Freedom and equality are in the Bible. Science doesn't explain how natural it is. Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project, for example, is a Christian who admits that this issue defends the existence of God.
the ideas of democracy are not in the Bible because they are political? That's funny, because the idea of kingship is also political. Freedom and equality are not in the Bible, in fact, Slavery and inequality are in the Christian idolized scriptures. Scientists can hold any religion they want to, like Islam or polytheism; it isn't hard. You can attain a great many degrees while holding on to multiple magical believes. The issue of Genes has NOTHING to do with the vague issue of God. What were Jesus' genes like? If that doesn't matter than you'll understand why your religion doesn't matter to us.
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