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Old 11-13-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Earth. For now.
1,227 posts, read 1,776,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Most people? What most people? I have never heard this. I think most people believe atheism has always been present.

Here is a list of atheist philosophers and it is a long one. to say they weren't important because no one has ever heard of them is truly indicative of all the other arrogant dismissive statements you have used to prove your points while ignoring those that disprove them.

List of atheist philosophers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes. I tend to think that it's the ignorant who have never heard of Heraclitus, John Stuart Mill, Bertrand Russell or Empedocles. And the ignorance is purposeful. Who wants to hear about alternative views when someone is convinced he is right and everyone else is wrong?
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Europe
2,730 posts, read 2,086,490 times
Reputation: 4158
Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
Hi all atheists, what answer would you give to the following questions?

1- Why is there something rather than nothing (nothing being the non-existence of anything at all)?
For some people there is something and for some people there is nothing. Maybe some people do have to define what things are to feel safe and some people have no need? Some people are fine with nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
2-If there is no God, is there good and evil, also called moral values? (No, there isn't) How could you come to the conclusion that helping is good and killing is bad?
Because seeing someone suffering because of my or someone elses bad actions makes me sad. Because feeling of compassion makes cry. Because killing hurts individual and cut his/her life usually at painful way. That makes feel bad and sad for the victim. Remember: avoid hurtful actions = moral value born.

Instead helping makes people see something good happened, maybe save someones live and see him/her happy. Little things makes people feel happy, helping is one of those things. It is about what a person sees around her/him happening, reactions and preference of type of things, energy and feelings what one wants to share and personally enjoy.

Why some believers are not helping and instead kill even they should know helping is good and killing is bad? Why to choose killing when could help as a religious person?

Helping is defined as positive thing and killing as bad thing generally. Positive things are good and negative bad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
3- If you believe that God is just a human idea and doesn't exist, than you have to consider that the moral values are also just human ideas and are not true in reality. If that is so, being you someone who was taught about the moral values since your childhood, how could you believe in your perspective of reality, once your own mind was built based in something that isn't actually true (moral values) by your own perspective?
Thanks!
All people are able to many things. Creative side of us writes fairytales as I count religions are just peoples fairytales. Moral values does not basic on fiction as fairytales does. Morality basic on peoples interaction and learning of themselves and others as human beings.

Morals are different on different people, people are individuals which feel and experience things different. They grow in different environments, countries and cultures and moral is also consired different in different cutures. Personal experiences make people individuals. If we have 20 peoples group watching opera, they can give 20 different answers of how they felt of it. Still they all know it basic on fact, they were watching an opera. Or then they could write a script of a opera and that would not basic on anything. Again, there could be 20 totally different opera which basic on individuals creative side, a side which is able to create fiction.

= What happends in real life, your real life experiences and gonsequenses / what does not happend. Realism, only facts etc. There is what you see and feel, there is not what you cannot see or feel.

Big difference between observing true life human behaviour and imagination which produce fairytales such as religions.

(no need to argue about calling fairytale, believers are able to believe those stories are true. For me they are imagination).


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Old 11-14-2013, 04:08 AM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,087 posts, read 12,019,996 times
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Quote:

Instead helping makes people see something good happened, maybe save someones
live and see him/her happy. Little things makes people feel happy, helping is
one of those things. It is about what a person sees around her/him happening,
reactions and preference of type of things, energy and feelings what one wants
to share and personally enjoy.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:27 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,339,238 times
Reputation: 13682
Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
Hi all atheists, what answer would you give to the following questions?

1- Why is there something rather than nothing (nothing being the non-existence of anything at all)?

2-If there is no God, is there good and evil, also called moral values? (No, there isn't) How could you come to the conclusion that helping is good and killing is bad?

3- If you believe that God is just a human idea and doesn't exist, than you have to consider that the moral values are also just human ideas and are not true in reality. If that is so, being you someone who was taught about the moral values since your childhood, how could you believe in your perspective of reality, once your own mind was built based in something that isn't actually true (moral values) by your own perspective?

Thanks!
None.

Mind your own business.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,043 posts, read 18,583,829 times
Reputation: 18687
weltschmerz.....
If the prime purpose in life is to help others, what is the purpose of those people who are in need of help?
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,089,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
weltschmerz.....
If the prime purpose in life is to help others, what is the purpose of those people who are in need of help?
Most people don't need help 100% of the time for 100% of their needs, so if everyone helps others, presumably what goes around comes around.

Or something like that.

In practice if you can't pull a solution to your every problem out of your own dusty rectum, odds are no one else will do it for you.

Still, I help where I can, and damn the torpedoes ... I just don't expect reciprocity. When I occasionally get it, it's a nice surprise.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,788,649 times
Reputation: 16147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
weltschmerz.....
If the prime purpose in life is to help others, what is the purpose of those people who are in need of help?
Just because someone needs help doesn't mean they can't also help someone else. Not that I necessarily agree that is the prime purpose of life.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,617 posts, read 2,064,812 times
Reputation: 2410
As my Father used to say.......Everyone has a purpose in life, if nothing else, they can serve as a bad example.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,043 posts, read 18,583,829 times
Reputation: 18687
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Most people don't need help 100% of the time for 100% of their needs, so if everyone helps others, presumably what goes around comes around.

Or something like that.

In practice if you can't pull a solution to your every problem out of your own dusty rectum, odds are no one else will do it for you.

Still, I help where I can, and damn the torpedoes ... I just don't expect reciprocity. When I occasionally get it, it's a nice surprise.
manderly6
Quote:
Just because someone needs help doesn't mean they can't also help someone else. Not that I necessarily agree that is the prime purpose of life.
I'm down with all of the above. I was thinking along the lines of the pure logic of the assertion. If we embrace the idea that the purpose of life is to help others, then it follows that there must be people in need of help, even though they come on a rotating basis, otherwise life would be without purpose. In that both roles are required to complete the purpose, it could as easily be deduced that the purpose of life is being helped. I could dedicate myself to that.

And of course all of the above would come with the umbrella assumption that there is a purpose apart from the artificial constructs we invent for ourselves. What we now know of evolution suggests we are not designer products, what we know of geology and biology suggests that were it not for random events, this would still be a world dominated by giant beasts with tiny brains.

Finally, even on the individual level, each of us who were born accomplished this by out swimming millions of potential replacement sperm who would have created other people, not us.

The crapshoot aspects of our existence do not seem consistent with a larger purpose for humanity.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,279 posts, read 19,307,980 times
Reputation: 20911
Default Hey, kid...

Quote:
Originally Posted by iohanan View Post
Hi all atheists, what answer would you give to the following questions?

1- Why is there something rather than nothing (nothing being the non-existence of anything at all)?

2-If there is no God, is there good and evil, also called moral values? (No, there isn't) How could you come to the conclusion that helping is good and killing is bad?

3- If you believe that God is just a human idea and doesn't exist, than you have to consider that the moral values are also just human ideas and are not true in reality. If that is so, being you someone who was taught about the moral values since your childhood, how could you believe in your perspective of reality, once your own mind was built based in something that isn't actually true (moral values) by your own perspective?

Thanks!

This is your thread.

You should go first. But you didn't.

Bad manners...
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