U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-25-2013, 12:24 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,214,880 times
Reputation: 4113

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Disclaimer: I am NOT proselytizing . . . just explaining my view.

Ironically, it has been our cognitive successes in developing our consciousness and dominating the planet that has probably created the problem. Our anciestors were far more right brain dominant . . . in fact according to Jaynes the two hemispheres were actually separate at one time. We all re-experience the evolution of consciousness that our species underwent. The first stage toward consciousness that a human infant must pass through is the development of the subject-object distinction -- the separation of the "out there" from the "in here," or the recognition that it is not the same as its external environment. This distinction separates us from many of the animal species (not all). Fred Wolf discussed this dawn of consciousness,

. . . Consciousness means self-awareness . . . and that first awareness had to be the concept of "I am." In sensing this "I," our first observer was learning that he was not his thumb or his foot. The "in here" experience was "I." The "out there" experience was "it."

Before the evolution of our current integrated left/right brain consciousness . . . we were simply clever, semi-aware animals, occasionally following the voices of “gods”(our left brain thoughts) in our heads. The two halves of our brains were functioning more or less separately. The conscious left brain wasn’t yet considered an integrated part of US . . . we had no sense of "I am" . . . hence the “gods” in our heads. The appropriate physical connections were not yet completed.

Julian Jaynes suggested that our species eventually suffered its first nervous breakdown when the physical connections between the hemispheres of our brain coalesced to enable left/right brain communication. We finally became aware of ourselves as "I" people. The improved consciousness that evolved from this “breakdown” mainly manifested itself in right brain dominant dreams and visions of “prophets” in forms suitable to the still meager intellectual left brain capabilities of the time. This would account for all the ancient "prophesies" and their decidedly non-left-brain character. It certainly makes more understandable the Hebrew word for the God that appeared to Moses, YahWeh, or "I Am."

Unfortunately, before Jesus Christ, despite our evolving sense of “I” and rudimentary reasoning abilities. . . humankind's infant consciousness . . . was incapable of permanently connecting to God's consciousness until a human (Jesus) did so and completed the "spiritual synaptic connections." Prior to Jesus the connections were sporadic and unpredictable . . . as "inspirations."

There is an analogue in the development of human physical capabilities that is similar to this basic problem facing humankind's infant consciousness. An infant does not have certain reflexes and cannot perform certain physical actions until the proper nerve connections have grown together sufficiently to enable synaptic firing. No amount of exercise or training can overcome these conditions until the infant's growth and development has progressed to the necessary stage.

A human mind from this physical plane of existence had to produce a consciousness linked in perfect resonance (Identical) with the consciousness of God. The resonant spiritual neuronal connections had to be created. The consciousness that was produced by the mind of Jesus became one (Resonant/Identical) with the consciousness of God . . . and simultaneously, remains part of the existing human collective consciousness affording us permanent access to it.

It is in this manner that Christ is the way to God. As Paul said in Ephesians 2:18 ". . . because through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father." The consciousness that each one of us produces and to which we ascribe our individual nature, character, and essence can also attain oneness with God through this "spiritual synapse" created by the human consciousness of Jesus Christ.
You know this is all just conjecture right? Jayne's hypothesis was interesting but you can hardly say it is factual.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-25-2013, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,874 posts, read 31,750,270 times
Reputation: 12622
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I was not referring tp that myth, Jay. I know all about the integrated brain. I am describing the different modes of processing information that occur in the hemispheres
Didn't read the article? "There is a misconception that everything to do with being analytical is confined to one side of the brain, and everything to do with being creative is confined to the opposite side, Anderson said. In fact, it is the connections among all brain regions that enable humans to engage in both creativity and analytical thinking."
Quote:
.Since the brain responds to external field stimuli in the form of artificially produced EM fields and interprets them as a presence
I find no evidence for EM fields Mystic, and it is not accepted among cognitive scientists. . . .
Quote:
the "it's all in your brain" nonsense is called into question. Since our reality is all manifestations of various field phenomena within the universal field . . . it is not unreasonable to conclude that this newly discovered sensing ability of the brain is at work during meditation.
What newly discovered ability? there is no evidence that it exists.
Quote:
When a meditator attunes his brain to detect the universal field (God's consciousness field) he experiences the same presence WITHOUT the artificial EM fields present. This indicates to me the brain is sensing a real field presence.
This is nothing more than a belief of yours, yet you state it as if it is fact....Again there is no evidence for either EM fields or any universal field....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2013, 12:34 AM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,715,004 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Disclaimer: I am NOT proselytizing . . . just explaining my view.

Ironically, it has been our cognitive successes in developing our consciousness and dominating the planet that has probably created the problem. Our anciestors were far more right brain dominant . . . in fact according to Jaynes the two hemispheres were actually separate at one time. We all re-experience the evolution of consciousness that our species underwent. The first stage toward consciousness that a human infant must pass through is the development of the subject-object distinction -- the separation of the "out there" from the "in here," or the recognition that it is not the same as its external environment. This distinction separates us from many of the animal species (not all). Fred Wolf discussed this dawn of consciousness,

. . . Consciousness means self-awareness . . . and that first awareness had to be the concept of "I am." In sensing this "I," our first observer was learning that he was not his thumb or his foot. The "in here" experience was "I." The "out there" experience was "it."

Before the evolution of our current integrated left/right brain consciousness . . . we were simply clever, semi-aware animals, occasionally following the voices of “gods”(our left brain thoughts) in our heads. The two halves of our brains were functioning more or less separately. The conscious left brain wasn’t yet considered an integrated part of US . . . we had no sense of "I am" . . . hence the “gods” in our heads. The appropriate physical connections were not yet completed.

Julian Jaynes suggested that our species eventually suffered its first nervous breakdown when the physical connections between the hemispheres of our brain coalesced to enable left/right brain communication. We finally became aware of ourselves as "I" people. The improved consciousness that evolved from this “breakdown” mainly manifested itself in right brain dominant dreams and visions of “prophets” in forms suitable to the still meager intellectual left brain capabilities of the time. This would account for all the ancient "prophesies" and their decidedly non-left-brain character. It certainly makes more understandable the Hebrew word for the God that appeared to Moses, YahWeh, or "I Am."

Unfortunately, before Jesus Christ, despite our evolving sense of “I” and rudimentary reasoning abilities. . . humankind's infant consciousness . . . was incapable of permanently connecting to God's consciousness until a human (Jesus) did so and completed the "spiritual synaptic connections." Prior to Jesus the connections were sporadic and unpredictable . . . as "inspirations."

There is an analogue in the development of human physical capabilities that is similar to this basic problem facing humankind's infant consciousness. An infant does not have certain reflexes and cannot perform certain physical actions until the proper nerve connections have grown together sufficiently to enable synaptic firing. No amount of exercise or training can overcome these conditions until the infant's growth and development has progressed to the necessary stage.

A human mind from this physical plane of existence had to produce a consciousness linked in perfect resonance (Identical) with the consciousness of God. The resonant spiritual neuronal connections had to be created. The consciousness that was produced by the mind of Jesus became one (Resonant/Identical) with the consciousness of God . . . and simultaneously, remains part of the existing human collective consciousness affording us permanent access to it.

It is in this manner that Christ is the way to God. As Paul said in Ephesians 2:18 ". . . because through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father." The consciousness that each one of us produces and to which we ascribe our individual nature, character, and essence can also attain oneness with God through this "spiritual synapse" created by the human consciousness of Jesus Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
You know this is all just conjecture right? Jayne's hypothesis was interesting but you can hardly say it is factual.
I placed the Disclaimer BECAUSE my intent was to explain my BELIEFS ABOUT God . . . not present the argument for the existence of God as reality for the umpteenth time. My BELIEFS are more than speculation because they have a very sound and coherent rationale behind them that is plausible and consistent with known science and the "spiritual fossil record." Facts are elusive devils in these matters, Jay . . as I am sure you know.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2013, 12:37 AM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,715,004 times
Reputation: 6047
duplicate
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2013, 12:40 AM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,715,004 times
Reputation: 6047
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I was not referring to that myth, Jay. I know all about the integrated brain. I am describing the different modes of processing information that occur in the hemispheres.Since the brain responds to external field stimuli in the form of artificially produced EM fields and interprets them as a presence . . . the "it's all in your brain" nonsense is called into question. Since our reality is all manifestations of various field phenomena within the universal field . . . it is not unreasonable to conclude that this newly discovered sensing ability of the brain is at work during meditation. When a meditator attunes his brain to detect the universal field (God's consciousness field) he experiences the same presence WITHOUT the artificial EM fields present. This indicates to me the brain is sensing a real field presence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Didn't read the article? "There is a misconception that everything to do with being analytical is confined to one side of the brain, and everything to do with being creative is confined to the opposite side, Anderson said. In fact, it is the connections among all brain regions that enable humans to engage in both creativity and analytical thinking."
There is no disagreement here, Seeker that is what integrated brain means.
Quote:
I find no evidence for EM fields Mystic, and it is not accepted among cognitive scientists. . . . What newly discovered ability? there is no evidence that it exists. This is nothing more than a belief of yours, yet you state it as if it is fact....Again there is no evidence for either EM fields or any universal field....
It is clear that you are unaware of the "God helmet" and the neuroscience experiments conducted with it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2013, 01:07 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,214,880 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I was not referring to that myth, Jay. I know all about the integrated brain. I am describing the different modes of processing information that occur in the hemispheres.
That's not how you were talking about it Mysti- you were repeating the myth in your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Since the brain responds to external field stimuli in the form of artificially produced EM fields and interprets them as a presence . . . the "it's all in your brain" nonsense is called into question. Since our reality is all manifestations of various field phenomena within the universal field . . . it is not unreasonable to conclude that this newly discovered sensing ability of the brain is at work during meditation. When a meditator attunes his brain to detect the universal field (God's consciousness field) he experiences the same presence WITHOUT the artificial EM fields present. This indicates to me the brain is sensing a real field presence.
Of course the brain responds to EM stimulation. But the rest of your post is just conjecture presented as fact.

I'd be happy to read whatever evidence-based studies you can come up with to support your claims.

As one of my interests both personally and professionally is Neuroscience (as well as Mindfulness) this is an area that I find fascinating, so I'm very open to reading new studies and information and ideas, but you seem to have a tendency to make bold claims way above the actual evidence as if they are factual instead of conjecture and hypotheses. I have no issue with exploring all sorts of ideas even if they have no evidence, but please don't present conjecture as "fact" and not expect to get challenged.

Last edited by Ceist; 11-25-2013 at 01:41 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2013, 01:16 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,214,880 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is no disagreement here, Seeker that is what integrated brain means.It is clear that you are unaware of the "God helmet" and the neuroscience experiments conducted with it.
Persinger's God-helmet? Seriously? I was hoping you actually had some legitimate recent study that I may have missed.

Are you unaware that study where the subjects experienced a 'presence' has been heavily criticized and has not been replicated?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2013, 02:59 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,214,880 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I placed the Disclaimer BECAUSE my intent was to explain my BELIEFS ABOUT God . . . not present the argument for the existence of God as reality for the umpteenth time. My BELIEFS are more than speculation because they have a very sound and coherent rationale behind them that is plausible and consistent with known science and the "spiritual fossil record." Facts are elusive devils in these matters, Jay . . as I am sure you know.
I was just referring to the way you presented Jayne's ideas as if they were a given, when they were really just an hypothesis he tried to find some support for in ancient writings. I said nothing about your relabeling of "reality' as God.

Your beliefs ARE speculation. Some of your claims about "known" science are also actually just speculation. I don't dispute that you have a reason for your beliefs - I find your reasoning and rationale interesting - but certainly not always sound or based in evidence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2013, 04:41 AM
 
39,020 posts, read 10,812,637 times
Reputation: 5080
Don't want to barge in when Jaymax is doing so well, and Mystic, too in explaining his position and hypothesis and the rationale behind it, but yet again we find that the nub is that a plausible or at least possible hypothesis is constantly being presented as though it was fact. It is not even the more likely explanation. Especially the mental leaps from 'I am' to the Bible and Jesus Christ.

The fixation on the Gospel fantasy is pure self indulgence on your part, Mystic. Even if I bought your Cosmic God theory, and even the 'spiritual fossil record' hypothesis, I would never give the fabricated Christ- myth the least input into it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2013, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,506 posts, read 3,906,881 times
Reputation: 9902
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
SHE?! Are you politically correct or something?? My FSM is male, like the other gods. May you be touched by his noodly appendage.
I'm fairly sure spaghetti is asexual.




*never looking at a noodle the same way again*

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top