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Old 12-02-2013, 07:41 AM
 
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It is, but with Biblical metaphorical labels attached to what is reality, science and ..ahh materialistic naturalism.

If there is any religious connotation at all it is in a residual idea that there must be some Mind behind it. That is ok, and we goddless would just shrug our shoulders, except when Christian -derived labels are attached, apparently as a way of validating a religion which has no otherwise valid reason for taking it seriously.
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
It is, but with Biblical metaphorical labels attached to what is reality, science and ..ahh materialistic naturalism.

If there is any religious connotation at all it is in a residual idea that there must be some Mind behind it. That is ok, and we goddless would just shrug our shoulders, except when Christian -derived labels are attached, apparently as a way of validating a religion which has no otherwise valid reason for taking it seriously.

yep...

I suspect that what we now recognize as religious people are the remnant of people who have always existed in every in society, people on the one side of the issue of Sexual behavior which insisted sexual promiscuity was evil.
They argued withOUT concrete evidence that promiscuity was evil because it destroyed families, required abortions, and filled the nation or tribes with bastards that became the barbarian criminal elements within.

Thy believed that but could not bring forth proof, so their preaching became what is now called faith only based religion.

They had no statistical system of proving these wild claims (that sexual behavior will hurt everyone) to the people who always came to resist the argument of a God that will bring realities down on them all.

The arguments were founded only on faith that this was all true, hence the term religion, religious people.

Last edited by cupid dave; 12-02-2013 at 09:01 AM..
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:45 AM
 
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I met atheist today. He told me that religion was forced on him growing up. And all he did was a sin & he was going to hell. Is this how the Catholic faith is?
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
I met [an] atheist today. He told me that religion was forced on him growing up. And all he did was a sin & he was going to hell. Is this how the Catholic faith is?
Google "Catholic guilt" for more about the unique aspects of guilt among the RCC faithful, but I don't think there is a simple answer to the question, "Is this how the Catholic faith is". Growing up as a fundamentalist, I don't feel that my faith was forced on me, but know plenty of former fundamentalists who would beg to differ. It is a function of your personality, the style in which you were parented, and the particular vagaries of each denomination. The Catholic church is a very broad demographic, and a big tent. It includes easygoing liberals and fundamentalist-style conservatives and everything in between.

It is entirely possible to have Catholicism rammed down your throat, and it's also entirely possible to grow up enthralled with it and willingly submissive to it.
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
What brought me back to being an agnostic atheist (we are presumably both of these things at birth) is the simple lack of proof and lack of concern to believe without it. I mean, you have to believe that a god cares for you or will at least reward you/not punish you in some way to make the question an important one at all. And I've not personally seen any evidence that an almighty being is looking out for any one of us. Anything perceived as evidence requires faith first, which of course means there is no evidence.
I do not presume to know "There is no God!", nor do I believe "There is no God". I simply don't see any reason to think there is one.
There are several kinks in your presumptions about God that are based on our very human yearnings and beliefs about what God MUST be or MUST do. I wasn't saddled with such baggage as an atheist . . . so when my atheism was instantly eliminated I had to start with zero expectations. God caring is not and should not be linked with intervening or with reward/punish or any other manifestation. As part of God we undoubtedly have a function to perform that relates to God's continued existence. God caring about us then becomes a natural event given that we naturally care about the cells that perform functions that relate to our continued existence.

Discerning and achieving our purpose would seem to be the task our consciousness has the capabilities for and is designed to perceive. God is likely to be self-directed and independent . . . so it is realistic to expect that we must achieve our purpose as a self-directed and independent consciousness. Everything that exists being part of god and necessary to God's continued existence simply means that we must achieve our part within the exigencies, constraints and vagaries of the processes of our reality as they exist . . . whatever they may be. Expecting protection from the things that comprise God's very existence is just foolishness. We are to use our consciousness to focus on achieving our part, period.
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:54 PM
 
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If you all feel as you do, how do you all deal with your family & relatives and friends who invite you over for the holidays~? Seems like holidays involve faith, so that may be difficult to participate since what you don't believe may conflict with those around you, right~?
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
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Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
If you all feel as you do, how do you all deal with your family & relatives and friends who invite you over for the holidays~? Seems like holidays involve faith, so that may be difficult to participate since what you don't believe may conflict with those around you, right~?
I can go have eggnog, listen to music, open gifts, eat dinner, even go caroling and to see lights with family with no conflict. I have even gone to a Christmas mass with family. I spent more time looking at the architecture of the cathedral than listening to the priest, but I didn't burst into flames.

I see religion like politics. I may not agree with your views on either, but we can still be friends. Not to mention my mom told me not to discuss either in polite company.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
If you all feel as you do, how do you all deal with your family & relatives and friends who invite you over for the holidays~? Seems like holidays involve faith, so that may be difficult to participate since what you don't believe may conflict with those around you, right~?
Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. It as actually a pretty content-free holiday. Christians use it as an opportunity to pray, but there is no religious ideation that is central to Thanksgiving. Contrary to what some probably think, you can express appreciation and feel grateful without involving a god. In point of fact, most appreciation should go to people anyway -- I express appreciation for my family, to my family, for example.

As for Christmas, it has been so thoroughly secularized that these days you can enjoy it on all sorts of levels other than the religious level.

From what I can tell, most unbelievers just ignore Easter (as do a lot of Christians, in practice, especially compared to Christmas). The rest of the holidays are pretty much civil / secular unless you're Catholic and observe feast days / Lent, etc. But those are not true work holidays anyway.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:31 PM
 
Location: TX
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
God caring is not and should not be linked with intervening or with reward/punish or any other manifestation.
This is another reason I quickly stopped even wanting to believe in a god.
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
If you all feel as you do, how do you all deal with your family & relatives and friends who invite you over for the holidays~? Seems like holidays involve faith, so that may be difficult to participate since what you don't believe may conflict with those around you, right~?
Seems to me like the holidays involve decorations, food, drink and lots of overspending on stuff, stuff and more stuff! To the point of being out all night waiting in lines, fighting with strangers over towels, and thinking that by spending lots of money you somehow saved money.

Insanity.
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