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Old 11-22-2013, 05:42 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,739,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Dogmatism comes in many flavors. It is usually the specific content that varies. Most atheists are dogmatic about not attributing the existence of our reality to anything. They dogmatically prefer the ignorance of "We do not know" despite the obvious and undeniable fact that whatever produced our reality is beyond anything we are capable of comprehending. Apparently that ineffability itself is not sufficiently "Godlike" relative to us puny creatures that it does not qualify as "Godly enough" for the arrogance of atheists and Godophobes..
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is atheists who insist on not attributing the existence of reality to anything because "We don't know" . . . so the "whatever" is the atheist God responsible for our reality . . . because whatever is responsible for our reality is most definitely of God status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minidiaz View Post
Zzzz
you offer a whole lot of nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minidiaz View Post
correction: you offer a whole lot of arrogant nothings
I can certainly see the substance in your rebuttals, mini . . .. NOT! What was that saying about pots and kettles?
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 168,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I can certainly see the substance in your rebuttals, mini . . .. NOT! What was that saying about pots and kettles?
any claims that are unverifiable are empty claims...
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:19 PM
 
39,066 posts, read 10,842,814 times
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Mystic, it is not dogmatic to say 'We will agree with your view if you present convincing evidence. Until then, we will not.'

Now, I am not going to be drawn into going over the materialist default argument yet again (which is, evidently what you have in mind here) but if you think that is invalid, I suggest that you go back and re-read the discussion again.
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,084,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minidiaz View Post
just clarifying...

are you saying
i see nothing = there is nothing
No
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 168,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
No
can you offer more?
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,084,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minidiaz View Post
can you offer more?
Can you clarify what you are getting at? I can't find the phrase "I see nothing" in my post. What point that I made are you referring to?
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 168,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Can you clarify what you are getting at? I can't find the phrase "I see nothing" in my post. What point that I made are you referring to?
you said this:
"I see no reason to believe in god" is really not different from "there is no possibility of a god"
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,084,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minidiaz View Post
you said this:
"I see no reason to believe in god" is really not different from "there is no possibility of a god"
What I was getting at is that there's no functional difference. Two persons making these two different statements will live their lives pretty much according to the same lights. Both think the probability of god vanishingly small, it's just a question of what you're willing to label a zero probability.

Certainly "I see no reason" doesn't preclude "I'm willing to see any reason that might present itself" but most of us unbelievers think such a presentation highly unlikely -- so much so that we behave exactly like someone who sees zero chance of that happening.

And, no, "I see no reason to believe" is not equivalent technically to "there is nothing to believe in".
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:35 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,739,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minidiaz View Post
any claims that are unverifiable are empty claims...
I hope your "empty claims" does not echo the "not one shred of evidence or reason to believe" nonsense of some here. There is a difference between unverified claims and unfounded ones. Try this analogy to see if it reveals the essential difference. I am arguing that some here do not know the difference between the circumstantial evidence in a case and the open and shut evidence for a conviction. Some atheists arrogantly deny there is circumstantial evidence because there is not open and shut evidence for a conviction. That is what their "not one shred of evidence or reason to believe" says. It is deliberate blindness or refusal to countenance as legitimate evidence the circumstantial evidence in a case.
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 168,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I hope your "empty claims" does not echo the "not one shred of evidence or reason to believe" nonsense of some here. There is a difference between unverified claims and unfounded ones. Try this analogy to see if it reveals the essential difference. I am arguing that some here do not know the difference between the circumstantial evidence in a case and the open and shut evidence for a conviction. Some atheists arrogantly deny there is circumstantial evidence because there is not open and shut evidence for a conviction. That is what their "not one shred of evidence or reason to believe" says. It is deliberate blindness or refusal to countenance as legitimate evidence the circumstantial evidence in a case.
you appear to be confusing subjective with objective...
and circumstantial evidence doesn't cut it.
there is no clear cut objective evidence you are representing the all encompassing authority of the universe

assertions made without objective evidence to back up the assertion are meaningless..

get evidence or just stop trying to prove your faith, after all what is the point of faith :

Quote:
Some atheists arrogantly deny
no no..you have that wrong...it is nothing but arrogance to assert something and expect it to be taken at face value...get a clue.
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