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Old 11-21-2013, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 169,021 times
Reputation: 58

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by definition dogma is "a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true "

is the skeptics position dogmatic,
since the fundamental disposition of a skeptic is to be convinced with evidence?

BUT

wouldn't that proposition apply to everyone as everyone has set a standard for themselves to be convinced of anything?

so is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist? >> speaking strictly about their skepticism concerning theology<<
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:25 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,343,783 times
Reputation: 1786
They use terms in an attempt to equate belief with non belief or pretend atheism is a religion too. You need to understand their indoctrinated views of atheism is what they post from.

They would not be able to differentiate a theist from atheist in the street or a bank queue.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 169,021 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
They use terms in an attempt to equate belief with non belief or pretend atheism is a religion too. You need to understand their indoctrinated views of atheism is what they post from.
i suppose their argument would suggest that everybody "believes" in something, it's just that their belief is more than a belief...
i am trying to put on those old shoes

Quote:
They would not be able to differentiate a theist from atheist in the street or a bank queue.
the pink elephant...
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,631 posts, read 18,722,763 times
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"I see no reason to believe that there is a god" is a conclusion.

"There is no possibility of a god" is dogma.

It is a matter of starting with a default position or starting with no position.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,198 posts, read 9,150,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
"There is no possibility of a god" is dogma.
While the above is not my unqualified position, it is not dogma if dogma is as defined by the OP (and the dictionary), because it is not a principal laid down by an authority. Also it's a position that is implicitly based upon the overwhelming preponderance of evidence, not simply parroted. Where I would disagree with this as a literal statement is that I'm not willing to assign absolute zero probability to SOME kind of god and I do not want to appear to be closed minded as to any possible evidence that might arise, however vanishingly improbable I might think that is. However, you have to admit that in practical terms, the two statements you cite are functionally identical, it is only a matter of nuanced communication and mindset which one you would subscribe to.

Therefore, "I see no reason to believe in god" is really not different from "there is no possibility of a god" other than IMO the latter is not properly thought out and lacks precision of expression. It's my guess that 90% of anyone saying "no possibility", if they thought it through carefully, would rephrase the 2nd version more like the 1st, and most of the other 10% would not be 100% intellectually honest, they would simply be trying to be provocative.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
1,652 posts, read 3,021,499 times
Reputation: 2135
No.
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 169,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
While the above is not my unqualified position, it is not dogma if dogma is as defined by the OP (and the dictionary), because it is not a principal laid down by an authority. Also it's a position that is implicitly based upon the overwhelming preponderance of evidence, not simply parroted. Where I would disagree with this as a literal statement is that I'm not willing to assign absolute zero probability to SOME kind of god and I do not want to appear to be closed minded as to any possible evidence that might arise, however vanishingly improbable I might think that is. However, you have to admit that in practical terms, the two statements you cite are functionally identical, it is only a matter of nuanced communication and mindset which one you would subscribe to.

Therefore, "I see no reason to believe in god" is really not different from "there is no possibility of a god" other than IMO the latter is not properly thought out and lacks precision of expression. It's my guess that 90% of anyone saying "no possibility", if they thought it through carefully, would rephrase the 2nd version more like the 1st, and most of the other 10% would not be 100% intellectually honest, they would simply be trying to be provocative.
just clarifying...

are you saying
i see nothing = there is nothing
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
269 posts, read 169,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
No.
whats your secret?
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,631 posts, read 18,722,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post

Therefore, "I see no reason to believe in god" is really not different from "there is no possibility of a god" .
"Should be a great picnic, I see no reason to believe it will rain."

"It will be a great picnic because there is no possibility that it will rain."

or...

"Should be a great marriage, I see no reason why it won't last."

"It will be a great marriage, there is no possibility it will not last."

.....still see no difference?
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
1,652 posts, read 3,021,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minidiaz View Post
whats your secret?
Well, I try to be respectful and non-confrontational. I may be the only atheist some people will know (or know that they know). If I am their only frame of reference, I want to make sure that they find atheists to be reasonable and pleasant. I definitely don't want to turn people away from rethinking their beliefs just because they only atheist they come in contact with is a jerk.

I find that more people consider what I think and believe if I don't yell or shove it in their faces.

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