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Old 11-29-2013, 12:06 AM
 
650 posts, read 440,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llgg View Post
I said that? Happens to everyone? Doesn't matter? I must have hit my head because I don't remember asserting those ideas. When I have known about child molestation (a child I knew who's was being molested by her mom's boyfriend) I reported it immediately and waited for the police with this girl. CPS was no help and so the girl, another teacher, and I sat down and talked about what we could do to get her in a safe place and we figured it out. When presented with the reality of this type of situation, that's how I deal with it.

My priest has virtually no contact with kids that I know of because our congregation is small and almost entirely adults. Most of his time is spent with patients and their families. Could he be a child molester? Yes. Any human being I know could be a child molester. If my priest is, then he got one of the worst congregations for an abuser because of the lack of kids.

I don't think you are going to understand my point of view. To me the RCC is huge with millions of people involved-- some sh*t is going to happen. The RCC handled this not just badly, but in an 'evil' way. Why protect these monsters? Their actions are vile. I think there we agree. But I think abuse is all too prevalent and often covered up in many organizations. Maybe this viewpoint comes from working in social services, but I've seen the underbelly time and time again. This is a human problem to me and finds it way into many parts of our lives. I still see value in my local church. I think our government has big issues with corruption, but I still want to participate in some ways. It's similar to that for me.
With kindness..Why are you talking about the crime of child abuse when you mention there are no children in your parish ?

Why not emphasize the latest report in Europe and concern over victims.

Homosexuality in the Catholic church is the problem among leaders, who sneak off as we have just learned to the Caribbean and lure very young guys into gettin it on with them, only to have rome send a jet pulling the homosexual priest out.

lets be clear

an alter boy generally has reached puberty....no ?

this is all about gay men decieving seminairys's.

want to argue..?

well then how could a homosexual not know he is gay, but he gets accepted doesn't he..? and what happens..? in knew with the lying sneaky plan all along.

Think people are stupid.

The RC is obviously full to the brim with homosexual criminals who have planned to hunt young guys...right ?

The leaders are corrupt, everyone knows that. The Pope is doing what he can but as all...cannot be judged although, there is a problem

The Pope has not come out and address the homosexual Priest issue and new rules to protect young guys ( and no crap on that, people like young people and this junk is NOT about infants.

The whole issue is not about attacks, but not addressing imposters, homosexual men hunting down young guys. That is what he problem IS The leader is a talker and has not yet and it is not known what he will be inspired to do, with responding to the world on this. So what happens, the Faithful pray for the V and guess what, desist from putting the do rae mi in the plate.

The communion of saints and those in communion with them IS the Catholic Church. Make no mistake. That is you, those are your people, those are your people and you belong with them as I can understand, no worldly matter with the hope, effort and thought-fullness.

So read up on the writings of the Saints and never mind this BS other then option not putting money in the plate and writings to head office and other to express. Im annoyed because its a very very simple to explain and understand yet ugly issue.

Last edited by alexcanter; 11-29-2013 at 01:11 AM..
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Old 11-29-2013, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,895 posts, read 31,793,503 times
Reputation: 12639
Quote:
Originally Posted by cguthrie View Post
You all post some very interesting points of view and truthful facts! I wonder if anyone has made a serious study of Gods word itself to determine the Truth about him. Seems to me the most reasonable source to look for answers to questions about faith. Many religious leaders today have destroyed our confidences in their leadership. Makes you question whether God is backing them or not! I've decided not to follow the crowd you might say. The Bible says to follow the narrow and cramped road and I will take you in.....I find comfort in that......I do study the Bible regularly with Jehovah's Witnesses and have found them to walk the walk they preach!!!!!! You will too!!!!
In my opinion the JWs are an evil cult....I have seen two families destroyed by their practice of shunning.....They are also guilty of covering up acts of pedophilia..... UK Jailed
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
2,637 posts, read 10,948,575 times
Reputation: 3547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The US committed genocide in the Philippines more than a100 years ago. They also had brutal discrimination against blacks not that long ago. Is that a good reason to leave the US and resign the citizenship?
You know, I'm not talking about the Crusades here - i.e. ancient history. I'm talking about abuses that are happening RIGHT NOW. I'm talking about an organizational culture that hides pedophiles and blames the victims. Yes, the US had a history of terrible discrimination against minorities and the consequences of that still echo today. However, the laws were changed because good people decided to stop going along with the status quo and raise their voices, to declare that it was wrong. To DO something about it. Right now good people are in a similar fight to see equal rights for LGBT citizens. Am I going to leave the US because my LGBT friends and family are not yet treated equally? No, but I am working to change hearts and minds so that one day they will be. I'm not going to just accept it and tell them oh, $**t happens.

In contrast, all I see from "good" Catholics on this issue is excuse-making, there seems to be no will whatsoever to communicate to the cabal at the core of your church that abusing children is UNACCEPTABLE. That hiding evidence of sexual assault and shielding the pedophiles themselves from prosecution is UNACCEPTABLE. No, you just brush it off like it doesn't matter. The only ones who act like it matters are the ex-Catholics who have left the church over these despicable policies.

Quote:
I acknowledge the pedophiles are despicable, but I see that as insufficient reason. The crime is committed by a person and not the institution.
If it was just one pedophile I would agree with this sentiment. But it is a pattern of behavior that involves multiple priests, multiple parishes, and has been systematically covered up by the institution itself. If the institution did what was right and turned over the pedophiles to the authorities along with all the information about the incidents in question, I wouldn't be making these points. But that's not what has happened and continues to happen.

Quote:
I know you cannot see this point and I get it. You are not Catholic and will never know what is like.
That's true. I am not and have never been Catholic, and I will never understand why Catholics seem to think this is no big deal. Your excuses in particular ring especially hollow.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:19 AM
 
Location: SC
2,967 posts, read 4,195,070 times
Reputation: 6836
Quote:
Originally Posted by cguthrie View Post
You all post some very interesting points of view and truthful facts! I wonder if anyone has made a serious study of Gods word itself to determine the Truth about him. Seems to me the most reasonable source to look for answers to questions about faith. Many religious leaders today have destroyed our confidences in their leadership. Makes you question whether God is backing them or not! I've decided not to follow the crowd you might say. The Bible says to follow the narrow and cramped road and I will take you in.....I find comfort in that......I do study the Bible regularly with Jehovah's Witnesses and have found them to walk the walk they preach!!!!!! You will too!!!!
Do your Jehova Witnesses stone people to death, keep multiple wives, make animal sacrifices, and capture slaves?

If you want to follow the bible word-for-word, as you say, you need to go back to living like ancient Middle Eastern people. If your JH leaders are not living "the true word", they are no better than Catholics or any other modern day religious leader that has strayed from the original teachings.
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:04 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,981,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The men that run the church may be corrupt. But, that is no reason to leave the church.
So tell me how that works, do you just lower your moral standards or look the other way?
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:07 AM
 
9,877 posts, read 6,750,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilli View Post
That's true. I am not and have never been Catholic, and I will never understand why Catholics seem to think this is no big deal. Your excuses in particular ring especially hollow.
A bit of a Strawman, but OK. Catholics think it is an abomination. But, you fail to see that Catholicism may be part of a persons fiber. AS I said, before, should Germans stop being German because of Hitler and Nazis?

No one denies something is rotten, but there is no need to dismantle Catholicism. There is a need to get rid to the men that cover this up.

Read the post in this thread of the Atheist that grew up attending Catholic school. You will find that at the local level Catholics simply teach ethics and do not condemn anyone. IN the end Catholicism is a set of traditions, rituals, cultural values which are deeply rooted in many parts of the world including Europe, America, and Asia.
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:08 AM
 
9,877 posts, read 6,750,565 times
Reputation: 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
So tell me how that works, do you just lower your moral standards or look the other way?
Strawman!

I thought a well educated atheists would not use a strawman argument.
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:26 AM
 
39,217 posts, read 10,895,806 times
Reputation: 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
A bit of a Strawman, but OK. Catholics think it is an abomination. But, you fail to see that Catholicism may be part of a persons fiber. AS I said, before, should Germans stop being German because of Hitler and Nazis?
Thanks That pointed up the answer I was groping for.

Germans should stop being Nazi because of Hitler. Nationhood is a red herring. There is no need to leave the US because of slavery or Wounded knee. It is a reason to put an end to racial discrimination and ethos that sees it as better left alone if it preserves the traditional thought of the South and North respectively.

And I will not leave the UK because of the Opium wars or Indian Mutiny. But I will stay to eradicate the ethos that led to those events.

Now one may stay within Catholicism and even praise it if it moved with speed to eradicate their facilitation of these abuses. It it that they appear to be soft - pedalling it and covering it up, and that means that the ethos within Catholicism needs to be changed, and that very soon. There is a serious lack of transparency and the sooner it is made clear that religion is not above the law, the better.
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,313 posts, read 11,239,815 times
Reputation: 14194
To the OP:

I haven't read the entire thread but there are a couple of important points.

First, I, and probably most atheists, reject the Catholic church not because of the evil it does but because it is based on an irrational and unfounded factual premise: this existence of the god you worship.

Second, in addition to the support for and harboring of child rapists, one of the main programs of the church is discrimination against and oppression of women. As a result, even if I were inclined to join some church it would be intolerable to join such a sexist organization.
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,895 posts, read 31,793,503 times
Reputation: 12639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
A bit of a Strawman, but OK. Catholics think it is an abomination. But, you fail to see that Catholicism may be part of a persons fiber. AS I said, before, should Germans stop being German because of Hitler and Nazis?

No one denies something is rotten, but there is no need to dismantle Catholicism. There is a need to get rid to the men that cover this up.

Read the post in this thread of the Atheist that grew up attending Catholic school. You will find that at the local level Catholics simply teach ethics and do not condemn anyone. IN the end Catholicism is a set of traditions, rituals, cultural values which are deeply rooted in many parts of the world including Europe, America, and Asia.
I grew up in a catholic family, was educated in catholic schools and I saw some of this abuse first hand, and then again as my kids grew up...The last priest they dealt with was Father Philip Jacobs... Jacobs: Father Philip Jacobs | Sylvia's Site

My kids are no longer involved in any way with the catholic church, and even their mother, who was a staunch catholic has left and now attends a unitarian church....You are attempting to defend the indefensible, and should be ashamed of yourself.
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