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Old 11-30-2013, 09:49 AM
 
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I knew I was not the only one that suspected this. Some folks are just too zealous and militant.


Quote:
"What Dawkins does too often is to concentrate his attack on fundamentalists. But there are many believers who are just not fundamentalists," Higgs said in an interview with the Spanish newspaper El Mundo. "Fundamentalism is another problem. I mean, Dawkins in a way is almost a fundamentalist himself, of another kind."

He agreed with some of Dawkins' thoughts on the unfortunate consequences that have resulted from religious belief, but he was unhappy with the evolutionary biologist's approach to dealing with believers and said he agreed with those who found Dawkins' approach "embarrassing".
Higgs boson theorist says he agrees with those who find Dawkins' approach to dealing with believers 'embarrassing'.
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Old 11-30-2013, 09:59 AM
 
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I have sometimes thought that he could tone some of it down. If only because it gives the opposition opportunity to play the 'atheist fundamentalist' card. He could put his point over equally well with sweet reasonableness.
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Higgs boson theorist says he agrees with those who find Dawkins' approach to dealing with believers 'embarrassing'.
I used to substantially agree with Higgs, but I have come to understand that much of "New Atheism" is about saying "enough, already" to the free ride / automatic respect that religion has gotten for way too long. I still believe that Dawkins is more strident and less nuanced than I'd prefer, but I no longer am "embarrassed" by him, either.

I guess it comes down to whether you feel it's okay to keep "making nice" and "going along to get along" in the face of the monstrosity that is fundamentalist thinking, and, more arguably, its lesser manifestations in theologically middle of the road Christianity, which still IMO produces its share of human suffering, e.g., the pedophile harboring / excusing / enabling of the RCC.
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I have sometimes thought that he could tone some of it down. If only because it gives the opposition opportunity to play the 'atheist fundamentalist' card. He could put his point over equally well with sweet reasonableness.
There are a lot of cards out there that people use to try to win arguments. I agree, too much intensity does not work for most. In my situation when you mention Catholicism almost everybody mentions the "Pedophile" card. Some minorities play the "race" card---and so it goes.
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:19 AM
 
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Paradoxically, the Higgs particle used to be called the God particle.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:52 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
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I don't find Dawkins embarrassing at all, but to call him a fundamentalist, et. al. is religion projecting itself onto Dawkins' personality. I do think there does come a time when religion has to be wrestled with in the most blunt and direct way possible - otherwise, so many people just don't "get it."

And it is high time that believers understand just how sick and tired we are of religion always getting a free ride to riches and respect while atheists are still polled as the least trusted demographic group in America.

I mean, let's face it ... Obama wants religious institutions to provide contraception to their employees (and almost 70% of Catholics agree), but that one action constitutes a "war on religion."

One has to view the Christian reaction to Dawkins within that context - that religion has enjoyed so much automatic and unquestioned respect in the past that it now demands it and has no qualms about forcing that respect. Anyone who speaks out in no uncertain terms against religion is automatically going to be criticized as a "militant" or a "fundamentalist" or overly "strident."
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Paradoxically, the Higgs particle used to be called the God particle.
Of course the reason had nothing to do with God.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
I don't find Dawkins embarrassing at all, but to call him a fundamentalist, et. al. is religion projecting itself onto Dawkins' personality. I do think there does come a time when religion has to be wrestled with in the most blunt and direct way possible - otherwise, so many people just don't "get it."

And it is high time that believers understand just how sick and tired we are of religion always getting a free ride to riches and respect while atheists are still polled as the least trusted demographic group in America.

I mean, let's face it ... Obama wants religious institutions to provide contraception to their employees (and almost 70% of Catholics agree), but that one action constitutes a "war on religion."

One has to view the Christian reaction to Dawkins within that context - that religion has enjoyed so much automatic and unquestioned respect in the past that it now demands it and has no qualms about forcing that respect. Anyone who speaks out in no uncertain terms against religion is automatically going to be criticized as a "militant" or a "fundamentalist" or overly "strident."
Higgs, who called Dawkins a fundamentalist is also atheist.

And your comments are correct regarding the religious right. But, the majority of religious people are very tolerant. Sometimes more tolerant than militant atheists.
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Higgs, who called Dawkins a fundamentalist is also atheist.

And your comments are correct regarding the religious right. But, the majority of religious people are very tolerant. Sometimes more tolerant than militant atheists.
You are comparing apples to chainsaws...It works both ways...There are very few "militant" atheists and they not tolerant of religious doctrine when it is used to define our laws or educate our children.....The majority of atheists are very tolerant, a lot more tolerant than many Christians...It is the religious who are intolerant of homosexuality, abortion, and the use of contraceptives for instance, not atheists

When it comes to intolerance, it's no contest, as the religious are winners by far.
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post

When it comes to intolerance, it's no contest, as the religious are winners by far.
I agree, the number of folks that are intolerant is greater among the religious, but surprisingly there are a few on the other side.
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