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Old 12-20-2013, 12:38 PM
 
9,829 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Thanks for the information. I did't know for all these years me and my family didn't even know the purpose of why we were getting together. I feel so stupid.
Then why are some posters so offended by this. The whole cnncept of the holiday is to give THANKS.

May the FORCE BE WITH YOU

Gross Gott!
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:41 PM
 
9,829 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
So if you didn't believe in your god, you would still pray to nobody/nothing, for blessings bestowed by nobody/nothing? No blessings have been bestowed upon me by anybody/anything, everything I have is because I worked for it, and sometimes fought for it, from relationships to material things.

I hear you. Some folks are like Vulcans and lack the human condition. Yes, it is illogical to say thanks while looking at the sky if there is no God. However, at some level it enhances the human condition. I can sss you do not agree and you rather operate within a realm of logic at all times.

Quote:
At least the Force is not based on an imaginary friend.
Gorss Gott!
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,862 posts, read 3,788,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Then why are some posters so offended by this. The whole cnncept of the holiday is to give THANKS.

May the FORCE BE WITH YOU

Gross Gott!
Nobody is offended by it.

We get offended by theists coming along here and telling us how we should think and that we are self centered, egotistical, dishonest, uptight and anal FOR NO GOOD REASON.

As I said before you are just making things up as you go along, seems to be for the sole purpose of starting arguments, making inflammatory comments, with the deliberate intent of provoking an emotional response. There is a word for this.
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:18 PM
 
9,829 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Nobody is offended by it.

We get offended by theists coming along here and telling us how we should think and that we are self centered, egotistical, dishonest, uptight and anal FOR NO GOOD REASON.

As I said before you are just making things up as you go along, seems to be for the sole purpose of starting arguments, making inflammatory comments, with the deliberate intent of provoking an emotional response. There is a word for this.
I have posted in this forum for a long time and I am no troll. I might have used the word anal, but did not say self centered, egotistical, or dishonest. I might have also said uptight.

I am an agnostic and i actually go to mass. I am well beyond my phase of atheism (being there done that).


I am not telling you how to think. This is just an exchange of views.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:58 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,969,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I hear you. Some folks are like Vulcans and lack the human condition. Yes, it is illogical to say thanks while looking at the sky if there is no God. However, at some level it enhances the human condition. I can sss you do not agree and you rather operate within a realm of logic at all times.



Gorss Gott!
Logic is all we have that is real, the rest is just make believe. Make believe as a lifestyle or guiding concept is foolish.

Had to notice you said "say thanks while looking at the sky" when every depiction I see of praying is eyes closed and head bowed. Much like a terrified child talking to a parent or authority figure.

And you totally lost me on the 'enhances the human condition' bit. Guess the fact I'm not a follower leaves me thinking 'what the .....'
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,111 posts, read 54,597,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D View Post
The Vatican was awkward for me. In order to go in, you had to dip your fingers in holy water and do the cross motion with the hands (I forgot what that's called, please don't get mad).

Stepping into a church is pretty awkward for me in general. Especially if there are people worshipping when I'm in there. I honestly don't know what to do with myself. I tend to stand in the back by the door and lay low to not draw attention to myself. I'm the awkward atheist tourist who is the only one not worshipping or doing something religious, just strictly admiring the architecture and the art in the building. That would be me.
You wouldn't be in one of the New York City churches. Jillions of people who are not religious go into places like St. Patrick's Cathedral* all the time to take in the architecture. People also go into Trinity Wall Street because they are tourists downtown at the WTC Center Memorial or the NY Stock Exchange or any of the other lower Manhattan attractions. I'm sure it can't be that different everywhere else, although, if everyone else does seem to be participating in some type of service maybe you just picked a bad time to be there.

(*Hint: Don't go there right now. It's full of scaffolding and you can't see anything.)
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
4,552 posts, read 3,646,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I've been to the Vatican twice (by which I take it you mean, entering St Peter's) and neither had to do that nor saw anyone else doing it. Maybe there was a font of holy water off to the side for those who wanted to use it?? Or maybe you were there on some special holy day. The only requirements I recall was modest dress and silence / no picture taking in the Sistine Chapel.
It was in front of the entrance to the Basilica. I did not have to do it to go into the Sistine Chapel. It probably wasn't required, but I was with my Catholic family members as well so I did it anyway just to not cause awkward situations with them. I don't think there was a special holy day when I went because the inside of the Basilica was pretty empty.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
4,552 posts, read 3,646,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Yes, it can be very awkward to be an atheist. Then why go to Europe to see how the Catholic Church shaped Western Civilization? Stay away and you will avoid feeling awkward.

OTOH, you could relax and not be so concentrated in your belief system. Accept old Europe as it is and move on.

The churches are considered Holy Places. Don't take as an offensive gesture. When in Rome do as the Romans.
Oh no I was not offended. I just felt awkward doing it. It didn't feel right to me. I was taken on the trip with my Catholic grandparents when I was in middle school. Honestly, if I had my choice, I would have done less "touristy" things throughout the trip but it was not my decision. I don't regret seeing the Basilica, at all, I was marveled by it. The act of doing the hand motion with the holy water is what bugged me the rest of the time I was at the Vatican. If I wasn't being a closet atheist during the time, that feeling probably would have been avoided.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
4,552 posts, read 3,646,062 times
Reputation: 3625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
You wouldn't be in one of the New York City churches. Jillions of people who are not religious go into places like St. Patrick's Cathedral* all the time to take in the architecture. People also go into Trinity Wall Street because they are tourists downtown at the WTC Center Memorial or the NY Stock Exchange or any of the other lower Manhattan attractions. I'm sure it can't be that different everywhere else, although, if everyone else does seem to be participating in some type of service maybe you just picked a bad time to be there.

(*Hint: Don't go there right now. It's full of scaffolding and you can't see anything.)
Most churches I have been to are the same way. The Basilica was a little different because of the holy water situation.

Usually the only time I ran into awkward situations at churches is when the church is fairly small and is not too well-known. For an example, there is a modern church in Sedona that's known for it's architecture and it's view of Sedona. I have been there a couple times. The church itself is very small and almost at any given moment two rows of benches are filled with people praying (there is roughly six rows in the church, my memory is a little faulty).

That two month time period when I was in Europe, that only happened to me once. Even visiting the Sagrada Family Church, Duomo di Pisa, Hagia Sophia, Acropolis, Notre Dame de la Garde, and some other religious buildings.
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Old 12-20-2013, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,111 posts, read 54,597,263 times
Reputation: 66503
Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D View Post
Most churches I have been to are the same way. The Basilica was a little different because of the holy water situation.

Usually the only time I ran into awkward situations at churches is when the church is fairly small and is not too well-known. For an example, there is a modern church in Sedona that's known for it's architecture and it's view of Sedona. I have been there a couple times. The church itself is very small and almost at any given moment two rows of benches are filled with people praying (there is roughly six rows in the church, my memory is a little faulty).

That two month time period when I was in Europe, that only happened to me once. Even visiting the Sagrada Family Church, Duomo di Pisa, Hagia Sophia, Acropolis, Notre Dame de la Garde, and some other religious buildings.
Wow, you'v been to some great sites. I'm jealous.
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