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Old 12-17-2013, 07:32 PM
 
40,107 posts, read 26,772,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What feeling awkward about Holiday Blessings and the like reveals about the "awkwardee" is an egocentric, self-absorbed, inconsiderate attitude toward social customs and other people. It reveals the attitude that "It is always ALL about me!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
No it absolutely isn't. It's about not feeling honest with yourself or anyone else. You couldn't be more wrong.
In my staunchest atheist years I would never have dreamt of insulting or making an issue of my personal feelings about their traditions or customs . . . if I was asked to be made a part of them and accepted. I consider it an honor to be included in someone's traditions and my acceptance is predicated on honoring that honor.
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,869 posts, read 3,793,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
In my staunchest atheist years I would never have dreamt of insulting or making an issue of my personal feelings about their traditions or customs . . . if I was asked to be made a part of them and accepted. I consider it an honor to be included in someone's traditions and my acceptance is predicated on honoring that honor.
Neither have I ever dreamt of insulting or making an issue of my personal feelings about other peoples traditions or customs. That's why I take part! But keep quiet about it.

So I find what you just then said offensive, because there is nothing selfish about it. It's the opposite of selfish.

Standing quietly feeling embarrassed or feeling like you are lying through your teeth because you don't believe the words coming out of your mouth is doing absolutely nothing to insult anyone your are in company with but yourself. How would they even know?
I am a very staunch believer in honesty which is why I feel uncomfortable. You wouldn't stand up in court and lie would you? But essentially that's what you are doing when you are being asked to say a prayer. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with this one Mystic.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:02 PM
 
40,107 posts, read 26,772,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What feeling awkward about Holiday Blessings and the like reveals about the "awkwardee" is an egocentric, self-absorbed, inconsiderate attitude toward social customs and other people. It reveals the attitude that "It is always ALL about me!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
No it absolutely isn't. It's about not feeling honest with yourself or anyone else. You couldn't be more wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
In my staunchest atheist years I would never have dreamt of insulting or making an issue of my personal feelings about their traditions or customs . . . if I was asked to be made a part of them and accepted. I consider it an honor to be included in someone's traditions and my acceptance is predicated on honoring that honor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Neither have I ever dreamt of insulting or making an issue of my personal feelings about other peoples traditions or customs. That's why I take part! But keep quiet about it.
So I find what you just then said offensive, because there is nothing selfish about it. It's the opposite of selfish.
Standing quietly feeling embarrassed or feeling like you are lying through your teeth because you don't believe the words coming out of your mouth is doing absolutely nothing to insult anyone your are in company with but yourself. How would they even know?
I am a very staunch believer in honesty which is why I feel uncomfortable. You wouldn't stand up in court and lie would you? But essentially that's what you are doing when you are being asked to say a prayer. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with this one Mystic.
It seems clear we have been talking past each other, Cruithne. I assume that the awkwardness presaged doing something about it and thereby insulting the host. You were talking about just keeping the awkwardness inside not expressing it. As long as no overt expression of the awkwardness is involved, I would accept your view of things. It is those who feel the need to express their discomfort or refuse to participate that I have issues with. Peace.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,869 posts, read 3,793,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It seems clear we have been talking past each other, Cruithne. I assume that the awkwardness presaged doing something about it and thereby insulting the host. You were talking about just keeping the awkwardness inside not expressing it. As long as no overt expression of the awkwardness is involved, I would accept your view of things. It is those who feel the need to express their discomfort or refuse to participate that I have issues with. Peace.
Respect and peace.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:48 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,978,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What feeling awkward about Holiday Blessings and the like reveals about the "awkwardee" is an egocentric, self-absorbed, inconsiderate attitude toward social customs and other people. It reveals the attitude that "It is always ALL about me!"
Then you must really feel out of place around people.

Uh, I don't say any silly pagan ritualistic and meaningless chants over food, or know any to say, cause I don't subscribe to the ignorance of thanking some imaginary deity for the food a person raised or purchased, prepared and served.

Now if it is good food, I will complement the cook, if it's eatable, I will only thank them for the hospitality.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:56 PM
 
40,107 posts, read 26,772,494 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What feeling awkward about Holiday Blessings and the like reveals about the "awkwardee" is an egocentric, self-absorbed, inconsiderate attitude toward social customs and other people. It reveals the attitude that "It is always ALL about me!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
In my staunchest atheist years I would never have dreamt of insulting or making an issue of my personal feelings about their traditions or customs . . . if I was asked to be made a part of them and accepted. I consider it an honor to be included in someone's traditions and my acceptance is predicated on honoring that honor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It seems clear we have been talking past each other, Cruithne. I assume that the awkwardness presaged doing something about it and thereby insulting the host. You were talking about just keeping the awkwardness inside not expressing it. As long as no overt expression of the awkwardness is involved, I would accept your view of things. It is those who feel the need to express their discomfort or refuse to participate that I have issues with. Peace.
Respect and peace.
Well Cruithne . . . thanks for understanding. As for the latest post below . . . QED! It epitomizes the lack of respect I am talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Then you must really feel out of place around people.
Uh, I don't say any silly pagan ritualistic and meaningless chants over food, or know any to say, cause I don't subscribe to the ignorance of thanking some imaginary deity for the food a person raised or purchased, prepared and served.
Now if it is good food, I will complement the cook, if it's eatable, I will only thank them for the hospitality.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 12-18-2013 at 08:12 PM..
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,212,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe View Post
A couple of days ago on Thanksgiving I was a guest and therefore was completely caught off-guard when everybody gathered in a circle around the dinner table, joined hands, bowed their heads, and began to conjure up spirits before sitting down to eat dinner. I heard somebody mention it was time for prayer and I was a split second away from a clean getaway to the bathroom or some other part of the house but the hostess spotted me and motioned to come and stand next to her so it was too late.

I did what I always do at times like these, I opened my eyes right after everybody else shut theirs and looked around and watched what people were doing. A few were deep in thought, the kids were squirming, someone winked at me (hmm, a fellow atheist?); I was "thankful" it didn't continue with going around the room sharing what we're "thankful" for; I've heard of this and other horror stories on what some atheists have stumbled on.

Any similar experiences?
Why let it bother you? It's meaningless. If you let it bug ya than you give it meaning.. albeit a negative meaning.

It's when someone with a rifle orders you to get down on your knees and start praying in a state-approved fashion that you have cause to be worried.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:56 PM
 
9,877 posts, read 6,747,934 times
Reputation: 2487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Neither have I ever dreamt of insulting or making an issue of my personal feelings about other peoples traditions or customs. That's why I take part! But keep quiet about it.

So I find what you just then said offensive, because there is nothing selfish about it. It's the opposite of selfish.

Standing quietly feeling embarrassed or feeling like you are lying through your teeth because you don't believe the words coming out of your mouth is doing absolutely nothing to insult anyone your are in company with but yourself. How would they even know?
I am a very staunch believer in honesty which is why I feel uncomfortable. You wouldn't stand up in court and lie would you? But essentially that's what you are doing when you are being asked to say a prayer. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with this one Mystic.
Wow!

I have been to Jewish ceremonies and enjoy them even though I am not a Jew. Just enjoy the traditions and the human condition. May the Force be with you.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:00 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,978,161 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Well Cruithne . . . thanks for understanding. As for the latest post below . . . QED! It epitomizes the lack of respect I am talking about.
The very same respect you demonstrate for anyone that dares to disagree with your views, about anything. And you assume that the mere fact I won't mumble some BS about an invisible friend putting food on a table disrespects you, well that's your problem. I respect myself first and to pretend to talk to a deity to placate you or anyone else isn't on my list. I won't bow my head to a false idol I don't believe in. If you see that as disrespectful, they you need to re-evaluate your perspective.

Got a favorite sports team? Probably not, but let's use that analogy anyway . You wear their gear, your chant their name or slogan, and someone else doesn't, and you feel 'disrespected'? No difference, except sports teams are actually real.

Last edited by Asheville Native; 12-18-2013 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:49 PM
 
40,107 posts, read 26,772,494 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
And you assume that the mere fact I won't mumble some BS about an invisible friend putting food on a table disrespects you, well that's your problem. I respect myself first and to pretend to talk to a deity to placate you or anyone else isn't on my list. I won't bow my head to a false idol I don't believe in. If you see that as disrespectful, they you need to re-evaluate your perspective.
As I said . . . It reveals the attitude that "It is always ALL about you!" QED
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