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Old 12-06-2013, 07:38 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
3,578 posts, read 6,212,333 times
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I've kinda wondered for a while if Atheism hasn't taken a stronger hold on America because we (atheists) find the fight to convinxe Christians such a waste of breath we essentially "give up". I'm not saying go all Crusades but I find after about 5 mins and 500 bible verses later I just walk away and say screw it. I wonder if more anti-religion rallies were held people would be more open and maybe more curious about it. Or maybe I'm wrong lol and dunno what I'm talking about! Do you find yourself in the "screw it not wasting my breath" category or do debate to the death?
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
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To me leaving religion is like quitting smoking. I have done both, and can tell you it is impossible for anyone to force you to quit either of them.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:16 AM
 
1,420 posts, read 2,647,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetbottoms View Post
I've kinda wondered for a while if Atheism hasn't taken a stronger hold on America because we (atheists) find the fight to convinxe Christians such a waste of breath we essentially "give up". I'm not saying go all Crusades but I find after about 5 mins and 500 bible verses later I just walk away and say screw it. I wonder if more anti-religion rallies were held people would be more open and maybe more curious about it. Or maybe I'm wrong lol and dunno what I'm talking about! Do you find yourself in the "screw it not wasting my breath" category or do debate to the death?
I only debate for fun and only if I don't do more harm than good (for example, alienating my neighbors or friends who might be spiritual). Got to wisely pick your battles.

Realize almost all (I'm guessing 99.99%) of spiritual people are that way because they are victims of brainwashing at a younger age OR they are born again because they suffered some sort of psychological trauma (prison, depression, alcoholism, drugs, abuse, etc). [Have you ever heard of a born again person who DIDN'T have a history of "hitting bottom"?]

Almost nobody cognitively chooses (makes an intelligent decision) to be spiritual.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,916,746 times
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I don't think 95% of atheists "give up" because they never started in the first place. We just go about our business and don't try and get anyone to change. I don't want anyone trying to convert me as I imagine most people don't want me trying it on them.

Those that want to change will figure it out.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Space Coast
1,988 posts, read 4,648,486 times
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I'm not out to convince anyone. Doing that makes one no better than those who try to do it to us.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:41 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 25,035,139 times
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And I sure as hell 'they' would stop trying to convince us.

How many times have we been told we are going to hell because we don't believe. It's beyond their grasp that threats from an imaginary deity sending us to an imaginary place causes chuckles instead of fear.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:12 AM
 
39,611 posts, read 11,053,326 times
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Like the Beatles, I'm not American, akchually, but I don't think atheism is not spreading faster because we 'give up' arguing too easily. It's true that if a theists plays the 'agree to differ' card, that ends the discussion. And the Theist remains theist. It effectively silences the argument.

But I think it's because of the sheer weight of historical credit that religion has. It has so inextricably become interwoven with human life, that people who never go to church to worship and don't care about religion even if they find it saves time and effort to to be agnostic rather than take a few minutes off to think about it, will thank God rather than say how very lucky that was or how well the surgeons did, or will fold hands and mump away with an expression of stuffy piosity the moment anyone calls for a minute of silence, even if they are not in a church, or that no public business can be conducted without a bloke in a nightshirt turning up and pretending that it's all down to him...

Sorry, I'm talking about the UK, and a government that thinks it looks good to the voters to swear on a Bible, in court.

Succinctly, it is as hard to tell the populace that they are better off without religion as to persuade them that Socialism might be a better way to run America. There is utter revulsion and incomprehension at the idea of a land without God and religion as an integral part of society, even if they never actually bother with it.

We must make haste slowly. While no time must be lost, we must take small steps. People are ready to turn against organized religion, whether of the historically valid kinds, or the nutty - come -lately spin -offs. People are ready to accept that the Bible might not be factual, and offering them the 'out' of metaphor or symbolism when trying to make genesis look like Palaeo -geology is too much of a strain is a way of weakening Bible reliance.

A book that is full of Higher Thought and Good social advice is perhaps more in tune with current thought than dire warnings of Hellfire and families fighting on both sides at Armageddon. As to that, while creative interpretation may make current affairs look like revelations coming true (as it has more or less since it was written, but without it looking more like happening than it did during the cold war), pointing out how NT prophecy was fabricated and how little it seems to relate to the Gospels story when read in context might be as needful and useful as pointing out that the prophecies of Tyre, Babylon and Daniel don't actually work. And there, the agree to differ card is conceding defeat of the part of the theist apologist.

For those who need to believe that the mirages and chimareae conjured up by their parietal lobes in moments of stress actually represent privileged contact with the ineffable cosmic spirit who has them personally in the palm of His invisible hand, and assures them that they are therefore better, smarter and Gooder than all those who question His reality, we can good- humouredly concede that we can't prove 100% that there is no God and just let an active and loudly rumbling ecclesiastical gut atrophy into an appendixe producing a few socially necessary loons to keep our social bowels regular.

Organized religion reduced to a rump, the the myth of sortagod will be next with increasing questions of just what this sortagod is supposed to be doing and what use is it to anyone, and people will watch old episodes of the Simpsons and laugh out loud at the idea of sane people packing a church each weekend to hear a patronizing bore with his collar on back to front droning on and on from Tales of the Brothers utterly Grimm, into their beer and TV time, and chuckle at the antics of Ned Flanders, a nice guy despite being totally bats.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,887 posts, read 3,816,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eresh View Post
I'm not out to convince anyone. Doing that makes one no better than those who try to do it to us.
I'm with Eresh. I rarely talk about religion except on here.
People will come to their own conclusions about what to believe.

Atheism isn't more popular in America because half the population are brainwashed and see no reason to change. They are happy as they are.

Religion will gradually die as more and more people realise how difficult it is to square what they believe with the scientific explanations of the universe. Nothing we say is going to make a difference.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,887 posts, read 3,816,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Sorry, I'm talking about the UK, and a government that thinks it looks good to the voters to swear on a Bible, in court.
That won't be around much longer Arq.
There have already been talks about abolishing that. Not successful so far, but give it time.
Anyway atheists have a get out clause. They don't have do it. They can just say:
"I solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." presumably while they have their fingers crossed behind their backs LOL.

Nor do you have to swear on the bible if you are not Christian.

So it's a bit of a mockery to be honest (who would know what religion you are) and I think it's a similar thing in the US?

I believe the President has to put his hand on a bible when he is sworn in but I going to bet that won't be happening for much longer either.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:13 AM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 5,836,503 times
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I think it's not popular because it makes people uncomfortable. Religion gives them comfort in a difficult world. It helps them make sense of senseless situations. It gives them a feeling of control because you have an all powerful deity backing you up (pray to god and he just might help you in your interpersonal relationship even if you're a jerk). How many times have you heard, "God must have needed an angel... that's why that 4 month old baby died" or whoever). The thought of not having a "sky daddy" is not fathomable for most people... "what? You mean... when I die I'm totally DEAD? No second chance in the afterlife? No seeing my dead loved ones? No getting my riches in heaven?" etc and then they automatically go in defense mode instead of inquiring mode. Also, being spoon fed theist ideology from infancy makes it hard to think any other way and our society doesn't exactly promote "free thought" as much as we'd like to think it does IMO. There's also a negative connotation to being a godless heathen. We're all indulgent, egotistical, loud mouthed degenerates in the eyes of many religious folks. If we (atheist) question the validity of someone's faith we're being "disrespectful."

I don't think I can convince anyone to be an atheist and I'm really not interested in trying. But I do like talking to other atheist and non Christians about their views.
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