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Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,428 posts, read 6,506,556 times
Reputation: 1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike930
OP, you have the right attitude when you said you supposed it was sent with good intentions. As a Christian, I would never send a card like this to an atheist relative. However, I have other relatives that would.
From their point of view, you're headed off a cliff toward eternal damnation. That's not meant to get anyone upset, I'm just trying to give you their point of view. They're trying to stop that. It doesn't matter if you don't believe or if you think it's irrational. They believe it.
They view it as love or kindness instead of intrusion and fantasy. I think older people are worse in this regards, maybe because they are headed toward the end of their lives and their beliefs are magnified.
Unfortunately people that send a card like this will likely continue to do so, even if they know it's offensive. To them, the ends justify the means.
I know many here get upset over this, but try to take it in the spirit it's given and just toss it. It's not going to stop. Why get upset and get yourself worked up? It's just a card. You don't even have to read it.
Dude. We get it. We get the spirit of the card/letter. But for goodness sake. These people trying to fit a sermon onto/into a card or letter. Faq dude. In the first letter they're faqing drawing diagrams. To me ( me only) it almost looks like the person is having a psychotic episode. Really. The note/card is a tad bit much of overkill.
I think Mike930 raises a valid point...in the end, they really are just trying to help you, based on their world-view. Of course the same could be said of the Jehovah's Witnesses that come knocking on your door, which is why I try to receive them with the same patience that Sweetbottoms is obviously showing with this well-intentioned card sender. The card is a bit over-the-top, but what's to be done?
What we are doing. While two wrongs don't make a right and Tuo quoque is a fallacy, this sort of helpful religious nagging is perfect justification for our ongoing militancy. It is necessary for people to hear what we have to say.
They think they are saving us from damnation; we believe that we are saving them from idiocy. We have the additional justification that we are peddling reason and they are not.
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,428 posts, read 6,506,556 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyker
Hello all.
I think Mike930 raises a valid point...in the end, they really are just trying to help you, based on their world-view. Of course the same could be said of the Jehovah's Witnesses that come knocking on your door, which is why I try to receive them with the same patience that Sweetbottoms is obviously showing with this well-intentioned card sender. The card is a bit over-the-top, but what's to be done?
Thanks.
Well. No promises but. With the note. Send a note back thanking this person for the kind note that they sent you. And say "I'm assuming that I am in your thoughts and prayers." But state that that there was so much writing on the cards that the exact message what's hard to understand. In the case of the diagrams. Say they we're very cute and appreciate the effort I put into them, but again say that you're confused about their meaning. Basically send a letter back acting confused about "the message".
Will this tact work? Actually probably not. It looks like a pretty far gone case at this point. But one can always try.
As in general with cards like this. You are correct people will receive these and they'll have to deal with them however they wish to.
Personally for me. Its a good tangible case study on how fervent and frantic folks can be about "saving" others.
From my point of view. This almost looks like some type of psychopathy that needs to be dealt with professionally.
Granted I was born in basically raised in the Northeast. Mostly Massachusetts. And for the most part we keep a lot of personal belief to ourselves, even among our extended families. Perhaps it's just a cultural thing.
So to me this whole episode seems bizarre.
Yeah well that really sucks, I get stuff like that too but I haven't completely come out of the closet yet as being agnostic/atheist.
But get this......my own Father sent me a birthday card this year and here's part of what he said:
"I wish you could have all the joy and benefits I have by reading and believing God's word"........WHAT? Here's the part that gets me.......he doesn't even know I'm agnostic, he just thinks I'm not a good enough Christian like he is!!! Yes, he is the be-all end-all of Christians. And people wonder why I don't speak to this man.
this sort of helpful religious nagging is perfect justification for our ongoing militancy. It is necessary for people to hear what we have to say.
Hello AREQUIPA.
I would not deny that it is important for people to hear what you have to say; therefore it is incumbent upon you to say things in a fashion that allows them to be heard. I have no doubt that you have sufficient experience to know that this is incompatible with "militancy" as most would understand the term, for information presented in such a way as to offend or threaten another's core values too suddenly will inevitably result in the receiver immediately raising his or her defences so as to block out the information. Additionally I would contend that there are some better left to their religious convictions. For me this would include those who do no harm in the practice of their faith. That said, I also recognize that where one draws the line of "harm" is something of a personal judgement call. For me, I see no harm in religious Christmas cards (even if overly preachy) or an occasional knock on my door - particularly when accepting the card with a grain of salt maintains peace within my family.
Quote:
They think they are saving us from damnation; we believe that we are saving them from idiocy. We have the additional justification that we are peddling reason and they are not.
An argument of "additional justification" that is based on the views held specifically by those on your side of the debate rings hollow to me. I am sure that a theist would claim the "additional justification" of having providence on their side.
Dude. We get it. We get the spirit of the card/letter. But for goodness sake. These people trying to fit a sermon onto/into a card or letter. Faq dude. In the first letter they're faqing drawing diagrams. To me ( me only) it almost looks like the person is having a psychotic episode. Really. The note/card is a tad bit much of overkill.
I agree with you. I think it is over the top and overkill. As I said, I wouldn't send such a card. My point was that there were some really angry reactions (which I understand) but the card sender didn't do it with malicious intent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyker
Hello all.
I think Mike930 raises a valid point...in the end, they really are just trying to help you, based on their world-view. Of course the same could be said of the Jehovah's Witnesses that come knocking on your door, which is why I try to receive them with the same patience that Sweetbottoms is obviously showing with this well-intentioned card sender. The card is a bit over-the-top, but what's to be done?
Thanks.
To me, the card is somewhat benign, but the door knockers are intrusive. Personally, that's where I draw the line. The door knockers are taking your time and at times in your face. The card can be thrown away. If you receive the door knockers with patience, you're a better person than I.
I probably abhor the door knockers as much as you all.
Wow...that shows no respect for "you" I get religious cards from my in-laws who are Catholic. I respect their view but they don't try to force it on me.(there is no additional hand written stuff) I just take it as a nice greeting. If I got what you got I would have to call them up and tell them to either accept me the way I am and not force their views on me or stop sending me anything.
I think Mike930 raises a valid point...in the end, they really are just trying to help you, based on their world-view. Of course the same could be said of the Jehovah's Witnesses that come knocking on your door, which is why I try to receive them with the same patience that Sweetbottoms is obviously showing with this well-intentioned card sender. The card is a bit over-the-top, but what's to be done?
Thanks.
No, just because they are the dominate religion in this country does not excuse this type of peddling of snake oil. What if their 'world view' was abhorrent to you, and in the minority of world views, do the still get the same pass of "really trying to help you"?
Christians are not exempt from being rude, pretentious, and completely out of line when they foist their views upon others. If the relative sends a crude child like doodle about christian belief, or the street preacher screaming (through a megaphone) about 'your all going to hell', the always get a by. What if the stick figures depicted sexual practices that they believed were proper and some that should never be used. Still OK? (of course it would be more amusing)
I am sick and tired of theists getting a by no matter how absurd their view, yet tell someone you are an atheist and automatically you are condemned and told to shut-up you 'god hater'.
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