Question for ATHEISTS who make visits to a loved one's final resting place (in a cemetery) (atheist, beliefs)
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Just yesterday, I called the funeral home that was used for my father years ago to ask if, at that time, the funeral home offered film or videotape recording or else audio-only recording of the funeral home service (and then, if so, if it is possible that my mother had paid for such recording services to be done for my father). They said such recording services were not offered at that time and are not offered now by them (yet I used a different funeral home for my mother in later years & videotape recording was paid for by myself for my mother's funeral home service).
(Then, as long as I was on the phone with a funeral home): Taking into account the claims stated here originally by Steel Dragon, I asked how typical it is that cemeteries, after a span of time (e.g., 100 years, 150 years, 200 years,or after whatever other time span) exhume the contents of coffins and place them into a common or mass grave or dispose of them or incinerate them (as Steel Dragon claimed) . . . for, by that time, it is likely that no surviving relatives or loved ones or friends of the deceased will be visiting the final resting place of the deceased anymore. And I also asked what does a cemetery do for monetary income when all its possible spots are filled up. The funeral home representative said that cemeteries are required to maintain a maintenance fund (or perhaps it can be called a perpetual maintenance fund) to maintain their cemetery grounds and its contents perpetually.
Shall we take it for granted that the funeral home representative's statements about cemetery practices regarding this matter are correct or not? (at least about all cemeteries in the United States or Canada? or what about other nations as well?) I would imagine that in Europe (for instance), where land area is so scarce compared to the North American continent, full-body burials are rarely available and very expensive and hence most people go for cremation and, if they have the cremains interred in a cemetery at all (rather than having them scattered or saving the cremains themselves), the cremains are is just interred in a small container in a tiny space in a cremains vault or mausoleum crypt or columbarium wall (or else people choose to have their cremains scattered whereever).
What are your thoughts of this funeral home representative's claims regarding this matter? Do you deem his claim to be universally or near-universally true or not?
I was only speculating when I made the suggestion.
Would I believe what they say? No, I wouldn't. But then again, I wouldn't trust anyone in the business of profiting from death. I think the money they charge for their services is an outrage and it's helped to make my decision for cremation much easier. YMMV
I love going to cemeteries and looking at gravestones. I wonder about who they were and what they were like. I also wonder things like how many acres is this place and what the natural habitat would have been like if it hadn't been developed to put dead bodies in the ground. My immediate family members were cremated with ashes scattered. In those cases I wonder about things like wind currents, erosion, and such. Once someone is dead, they're dead. I don't spend time wishing they weren't or thinking 'what if' and things like that. I remember the good times with a smile, glad to have known that person for a while as I move on with my life. Death is a natural part of life, and I would much rather spend my energy making the most of it and leaving this planet in better shape than it was when I got here rather than worrying about when it ends. It's like going to a party. You know it won't last long, so drink up and enjoy rather than sit in a corner pouting because it's temporary.
I do, too. I especially love going to cemeteries in places like New Orleans. So much history, and some of the stonework is exquisitely beautiful.
Then again, I write horror for the fun of it, so what do I know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati
It is a cathartic ritual.
Why look at a photograph of a lost loved one? It's not them. But, of course, looking at those colors on film-stock or a computer screen evokes memories. They are a connection which allows us to delve deeper into our memories and feelings for someone with whom we can no longer interact in a bilateral way. The same is largely true for a visit to a grave site.
The explanation is quite simple, ordinary, and obvious - the "Ha, gotcha, you're not really an atheist!" sub-text of your post notwithstanding.
I noticed that, too. Funny, I've yet to visit a grave of anyone in my family. My sister visited my nephew's grave not long after he died, and she was furious. There were people hanging around at a nearby grave, letting their children run all over the place, and pretty much having a party. This wasn't a cultural thing, either. It was a trailer-trash thing (if I may be so arrogant). She just wanted to process her grief a little more, come to terms with the fact that he's gone, and so on, and these idiots were cussing, littering, and in general acting like the place was their own private tiki bar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native
First thing we have to do is to stop preserving and sealing bodies in steel or concrete boxes. What the hell are people preserving them for?
Cremation, or natural burial. And there are even those that oppose cremation because of the energy required to render a body to ash.
I might have mentioned this in another thread, but I wish I could have a Tibetan sky burial. Worm food? Nah! I want to be bird food!
And now for something completely different... Some people visit graves to dance or pee on them. Hey, it happens.
Question for ATHEISTS who make visits to a loved one's final resting place (in a cemetery)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsAll
Here is a question for those who consider themselves an ATHEIST (especially a strong atheist/gnostic atheist . . . but any atheist can otherwise answer). Just curious as to what truly occurs in your actual thinking:
If you are an ATHEIST and you make regular or occasional visits to a CEMETERY to visit the FINAL RESTING PLACE of any of your loved ones (parents, relatives, children, your marriage partner, close friends, et al), why do you go IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE and therefore that deceased person is, in your thinking, completely extinct forevermore (i.e., no mind, no soul, no spirit of that person continued on after their death)?
That is, if that deceased loved one is completely extinct in every conceivable way and always will be, then why do you go to the cemetery (with whatever degree of frequency)? That person will never know that you were there, will never be there in spirit for you to speak to or cry to or to share your thoughts or feelings with or anything else. They no longer exist in any way, shape or form (not physically, not mentally/psychologically, not in spirit or soul, not in any way). The ultimate question for me to ask of you is: Is your visiting the cemetery (with whatever degree of regularity) for your loved one(s) a demonstration that you actually wish or else secretly believe that this deceased loved one actually DOES exist in spirit? That is, are your visits to the cemetery a reflection of some degree of wishful thinking on your part?
Because, if you are correct that there is no afterlife, you can think of that person and pay tribute to them in your mind anytime and anyplace that you are locationally situated (without having to ever make any visits to the cemetery) if they are, in fact, extinct in every conceivable way. You don’t EVER have to visit their final resting place in the cemetery. They won’t know the difference (after all, they do not exist anymore and therefore no continuation of their mind or soul has occurred for them to know in any way of your visits or your talking to or sharing your feelings and thoughts with them wherever you are locationally situated . . . whether at the cemetery or anyplace else).
Please satisfy my curiosity . . . and perhaps your own curiosity as to how your fellow C-D contributors or posters on this thread think about this issue.
I'm old enough that many members of my immediate family have passed away. Like most others, I suspect, my visits to their resting places are moments for reflections on the times we spent together in the past and to temporarily help fill those empty places we feel from their absence. I don't pretend to think they somehow benefit from my presence.
Life is a problem for the living. Death is left to the dead.
Here is a question for those who consider themselves an ATHEIST (especially a strong atheist/gnostic atheist . . . but any atheist can otherwise answer). Just curious as to what truly occurs in your actual thinking:
If you are an ATHEIST and you make regular or occasional visits to a CEMETERY to visit the FINAL RESTING PLACE of any of your loved ones (parents, relatives, children, your marriage partner, close friends, et al), why do you go IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE THERE IS AN AFTERLIFE and therefore that deceased person is, in your thinking, completely extinct forevermore (i.e., no mind, no soul, no spirit of that person continued on after their death)?
Hath not an Atheist eyes?
The silliness here is somewhat obtuse.
Are you suggesting that theists have a monopoly on grief?
Or are you suggesting that Atheists are incapable of grief, seeing how Atheists have no Morals-n-Stuff?
There is no "correct" way to grieve. If anyone tells you differently, you tell them I said so. The grieving process is different for everyone. People seek closure, and there are numerous methods and approaches for each individual to take to gain closure. If visiting a grave-site assists in that process, there is nothing sinister about it.
People go to grave-sites not for the one lost, but for themselves...
"I wish I had told you 'I love you' more often"
"I'm sorry I didn't listen to you."
"I wish we had spent more time together."
"I freaking hate you for abandoning me."
"I'm sorry my weapon jammed."
"I'm sorry I didn't get to you in time."
"You bastard...do you know what kind of mess you left me in?
"I'm sorry I didn't get your back."
"If I could do it over...I'd do it differently"
"I really miss you."
Nothing to see here....those are all normal thoughts that normal people experience, and it has nothing to do with an after-life in which people wear a white tupa and sing, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lamb!" for all eternity, even though I'm sure it's incredibly exciting.
Gravely...
Are you suggesting that theists have a monopoly on grief?
Or are you suggesting that Atheists are incapable of grief, seeing how Atheists have no Morals-n-Stuff?
There is no "correct" way to grieve. If anyone tells you differently, you tell them I said so. The grieving process is different for everyone. People seek closure, and there are numerous methods and approaches for each individual to take to gain closure. If visiting a grave-site assists in that process, there is nothing sinister about it.
People go to grave-sites not for the one lost, but for themselves... "I wish I had told you 'I love you' more often"
"I'm sorry I didn't listen to you."
"I wish we had spent more time together."
"I freaking hate you for abandoning me."
"I'm sorry my weapon jammed."
"I'm sorry I didn't get to you in time."
"You bastard...do you know what kind of mess you left me in?
"I'm sorry I didn't get your back."
"If I could do it over...I'd do it differently"
"I really miss you."
Nothing to see here....those are all normal thoughts that normal people experience, and it has nothing to do with an after-life in which people wear a white tupa and sing, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lamb!" for all eternity, even though I'm sure it's incredibly exciting.
Gravely...
Mircea
I like your collection of a range of possible thoughts that may occur in the minds of visitors to family members' or relatives' grave site(s) . . . as they "speak" to said deceased persons or perhaps it might better be phrased that "as they speak to their memories or mental representations of said persons". Your examples of such possible thoughts all being indicative of "unfinished business" or things said to said deceased person(s) that we wish we'd had the chance to say to them while they were still alive and conscious.
I, in particular, visit the family gravesite because my great-grandparents are there. I have "what if they had lived to know this" moments. And also... I go because there is a history there. Their sisters, my great-grandpa's parents, uncles, aunts are all there. I didn't know those people, but when I go there, sometimes I find someone and I ask about them. I get curious about their life.
If it were for someone more immediate (my husband or child) it would likely be just as others have said. A quiet place that allows me to process and remember more.
I, in particular, visit the family gravesite because my great-grandparents are there. I have "what if they had lived to know this" moments. And also... I go because there is a history there. Their sisters, my great-grandpa's parents, uncles, aunts are all there. I didn't know those people, but when I go there, sometimes I find someone and I ask about them. I get curious about their life.
If it were for someone more immediate (my husband or child) it would likely be just as others have said. A quiet place that allows me to process and remember more.
Yes, if I lived closer to where my parents and other family members are buried, I would drop by every so often to sit with them at their final resting places. Why? As you put it, it is "a quiet place that allows me to process and remember more". We (or at least some of us) somehow feel closer to our deceased loved ones when we visit their final resting places, even if we (as those prone to being non-believers or at least skeptics) don't, or don't necessarily, tend to think that there is any living spirit of them which perceives our presence there or to which we can communicate with. We are more likely, as C-D poster Nozzferrahhtoo put it originally, speaking to our own memories of our loved ones and to the elements of them that have been instilled or integrated into ourselves. And, as C-D poster Old Gringo put it earlier, I would go for "moments for reflections on the times we spent together in the past and to temporarily help fill those empty places we feel from their absence".
Last edited by UsAll; 01-23-2014 at 12:38 AM..
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Question for ATHEISTS who make visits to a loved one's final resting place (in a cemetery)
