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Old 01-23-2014, 03:11 AM
 
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I have to say that is a very good example or analogy. When Mystic (or others) argue that consciousness must continue after death because otherwise 'where does it go' is so obviously missing the obvious explanation, that we have to wonder whether the desire to 'prove' the existence of a soul is getting in the way of coherent thought.

I'm not bashing or sneering, but truly and honestly I do see a real problem of thinking approach here.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I have to say that is a very good example or analogy. When Mystic (or others) argue that consciousness must continue after death because otherwise 'where does it go' is so obviously missing the obvious explanation, that we have to wonder whether the desire to 'prove' the existence of a soul is getting in the way of coherent thought.

I'm not bashing or sneering, but truly and honestly I do see a real problem of thinking approach here.
The problem is the egotistical view that Mystic and others have, thinking that their consciousness so special or powerful that it would continue. There is probably a lot of selfish wishing that factors into their belief also, or just fear they cannot or will not face.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Which quote of yours should we take seriously? Should we focus on that 'dark stuff' or not?
My stalkers need to focus on presenting SOME indication that they have the slightest clue about the actual physics involved instead of pretending to rebut using "we don't know what the dark stuff is . . . so you can't either." They need to put up or shut up.

Those trying to understand my metaphors about the structure and composition of reality and their relationship to God can focus on the dark stuff.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I have to say that is a very good example or analogy. When Mystic (or others) argue that consciousness must continue after death because otherwise 'where does it go' is so obviously missing the obvious explanation, that we have to wonder whether the desire to 'prove' the existence of a soul is getting in the way of coherent thought.
I'm not bashing or sneering, but truly and honestly I do see a real problem of thinking approach here.
The thinking approach problem is a failure to see reality from the outside in. The flame is an energy event with various energy forms resulting from the transformation of the combustibles. The energy in those new forms cannot be lost or disappear. With real flames we can measure the new energy forms and track their fates. Ask youself how you can see a flame from a large distance away . . . or how we can see the stars (suns) so many light years away if they don't go anywhere. If the measurable flames from a Sun can remain within the universe for light years after it was produced . . . why do you think asking where it goes makes no sense? Just because the "flames of consciousness" are not measurable . . . that does not change the fact that the composite energy involved must be accounted for.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The thinking approach problem is a failure to see reality from the outside in. The flame is an energy event with various energy forms resulting from the transformation of the combustibles. The energy in those new forms cannot be lost or disappear. With real flames we can measure the new energy forms and track their fates. Ask yourself how you can see a flame from a large distance away . . . or how we can see the stars (suns) so many light years away if they don't go anywhere. If the measurable flames from a Sun can remain within the universe for light years after it was produced . . . why do you think asking where it goes makes no sense? Just because the "flames of consciousness" are not measurable . . . that does not change the fact that the composite energy involved must be accounted for.
I can't see why you can't see what you are missing. Reality from outside in is no more than turning it on its head to make speculation fact, illogic logic and obfuscation explanation.

I know that you consider this is all over my head but do you really think that I am so ignorant that I cannot see the absurdity of your "Ask yourself how you can see a flame from a large distance away . . . or how we can see the stars (suns) so many light years away if they don't go anywhere." Light particles travel from the flame and sun to our eyes. That is why we see stars that probably don't even exist any more. This is the sort of rubbish argument I expect from the worst kind of creationist. I am distressed to see you trying to pull it.

Mystic, I sussed you long ago. Your synthesis is ingenious, but speculative, your Philosophic credential impeccable, but your basic reasoning flawed by faith. It doesn't matter that you don't accept this, but I can tell you that you have been found out and you and your theory are washed up.

P.s I do hope that you bout of ill health improves. Why not take a break and convalesce?
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
My stalkers need to focus on presenting SOME indication that they have the slightest clue about the actual physics involved instead of pretending to rebut using "we don't know what the dark stuff is . . . so you can't either."
But that is the "Actual Physics" here. The fact that we have no idea what Dark Matter and Dark Energy is - is the current state of affairs in the physics world. We called them Matter and Energy arbitrarily. We do not know what they are. In the spirit of Dr. Seuss in the Cat in the Hat we could just as validly have called them "Thing 1 and Thing 2".

If your forum emissions here require you to pretend we know what these things are in order to evidence your claims - then we are as justified as it is humanly possible to be in simply saying you are making stuff up.
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:54 AM
 
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All we know about dark mater is that mathematics show that the universe ought to have it, even if we can't see it. Actually, I seem to recall that we have identified areas of it, but I may be thinking of antimatter - yes, there are clouds of antimatter...we are still looking for 'Dark matter'.

We know nothing about it and certainly cannot start using it as a mechanism for god -concioussness. I don't even see why it is necessary as normal matter would do just as well.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
All we know about dark mater is that mathematics show that the universe ought to have it, even if we can't see it. Actually, I seem to recall that we have identified areas of it, but I may be thinking of antimatter - yes, there are clouds of antimatter...we are still looking for 'Dark matter'.
We know nothing about it and certainly cannot start using it as a mechanism for god -concioussness. I don't even see why it is necessary as normal matter would do just as well.
Not to belabor the obvious, Arq . . . but normal matter comprises less than 5% of reality whereas dark matter and dark energy comprise 95+% of reality. What do you think would be a more appropriate choice?
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not to belabor the obvious, Arq . . . but normal matter comprises less than 5% of reality whereas dark matter and dark energy comprise 95+% of reality. What do you think would be a more appropriate choice?
What I think is that we should wait to find out what dark matter is and even if it is actually there, and not to use it in constructing theories when we know nothing whatever about it.

The point being that to use dark matter as a vehicle for cosmic consciousness when we don't know what it is or does and use that as a speculative vehicle for individual consciousness (soul) continuing after death which is also what we don't know for sure, is hypothesis, and no more.

That, old mate, is really the end of your input into the discussion as I really beg that you won't pul out you old resorts of inverting logic, claiming (probably misunderstood) personal experience as proof, using yet more speculations to prop up your speculations, demanding that we answer pointless syllogisms, wave about your scientific credentials (morbeth pretty much drove the stake into that one) and please, please, save the old sigh, headslap icon, oh you are such blind idiots...

Your hypothesis (and you have pretty much been pushed into admitting that it all that it is) is a very nice one, but your prolonged and persistent efforts to try to get it on the table as fact have all totally failed. So please let it lie as ingenious speculation and proof of nothing whatsoever, other than the ability of humans to ascribe all sorts of natural event that they don't understand to some divine cause.
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