U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-16-2014, 12:42 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,739,576 times
Reputation: 6050

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is because we are using our consciousness to think about these things that we simply do not acknowledge that it is a unique form of energy distinct from the body that produces it. That is why atheists do not see that the specific form of energy produced must continue or be transformed into something else. Nothing we currently know about changes consciousness energy into anything else. Ergo . . . it continues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is physics. Your body is not doing the thinking and responding on here and its unique personality and perspective has nothing to do with your body. It is pure intellect . . . a form of energy within our reality that is identifiable and interactive. It is no illusion . . . so it IS a real energy form. Only real energy forms exist within our reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
That's a fair way of putting it, but the question really is: does it continue to exist after death when the body had diffused? The way it looks is that consciousness, like life, is linked to the corporeal body, and while the energy that animates the body has to go somewhere, what evidence is there to suggest that it continues to function when the corporeal body is dissipated? And you can save the circular 'personal experience' chat, old mate. It won't do.
No need for the personal experiences, Arq. The bold explains the dissipation issue. We know what happens to the physical components of our body and brain. But absent some mechanism to transform the accumulated energy in the form of intellect (what we experience as our "fleeting" consciousness throughout our life) . . . it is difficult to envision what causes the dissipation or diffusion . . . and into what.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-16-2014, 01:10 PM
 
39,070 posts, read 10,842,814 times
Reputation: 5085
I really, really do not want to have the debate again. There is nothing to indicate that consciousness energy in the form that humans and indeed animals have it exists after death any more than it exists before birth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,084,119 times
Reputation: 6079
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
We know what happens to the physical components of our body and brain. But absent some mechanism to transform the accumulated energy in the form of intellect (what we experience as our "fleeting" consciousness throughout our life) . . . it is difficult to envision what causes the dissipation or diffusion . . . and into what.
At death, our bodies go from a particular organized state into a disorganized state, ultimately becoming something ghastly and unusable. So it is not at all difficult to imagine what happens to our consciousness -- it, too, loses its unique organization known as "me". That is most likely. It is possible that there is some superimposed discarnate basis for "me" that would hold "me" together, but I currently see no basis to think that, other than that (by some people's lights) it'd be nice if it were so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2014, 02:03 PM
 
Location: New England
398 posts, read 582,710 times
Reputation: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Do, rather I relish in the value that the true transience of life gives to each and every one of us. I find that the concept of an eternal life cheapens the value of life into nothing.
This represents the kind of dualism I thought perpetuated only by the Judeo-Christian religious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2014, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,084,119 times
Reputation: 6079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novila View Post
This represents the kind of dualism I thought perpetuated only by the Judeo-Christian religious.
Dualism is our day to day reality. We are pulled along by the arrow of time, burdened with the need for paychecks and food and other annoyances. Nondual mental experiences are interesting to explore and to speculate about how one could be everywhere and everywhen, and even everyone. But in terms of what we actually have to deal with on a daily basis, Nozz is absolutely correct; that which is in abundance is inherently cheapened. Realizing that life is a finite gift, makes it a precious one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2014, 05:23 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,525 posts, read 2,448,641 times
Reputation: 24006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It is possible that there is some superimposed discarnate basis for "me" that would hold "me" together, but I currently see no basis to think that, other than that (by some people's lights) it'd be nice if it were so.
C'mon Mordant, other people's lights? What the hell does that mean?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2014, 06:54 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,739,576 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I really, really do not want to have the debate again. There is nothing to indicate that consciousness energy in the form that humans and indeed animals have it exists after death any more than it exists before birth.
No need for debate, Arq. The difference is that before birth there was no consciousness produced. It IS produced during life and its cumulative energy has to be accounted for within the universe. It currently is not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2014, 06:59 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,739,576 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No need for the personal experiences, Arq. The bold explains the dissipation issue. We know what happens to the physical components of our body and brain. But absent some mechanism to transform the accumulated energy in the form of intellect (what we experience as our "fleeting" consciousness throughout our life) . . . it is difficult to envision what causes the dissipation or diffusion . . . and into what.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
At death, our bodies go from a particular organized state into a disorganized state, ultimately becoming something ghastly and unusable. So it is not at all difficult to imagine what happens to our consciousness -- it, too, loses its unique organization known as "me". That is most likely. It is possible that there is some superimposed discarnate basis for "me" that would hold "me" together, but I currently see no basis to think that, other than that (by some people's lights) it'd be nice if it were so.
Perhaps my response to Arq will make it clearer, mordant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No need for debate, Arq. The difference is that before birth there was no consciousness produced. It IS produced during life and its cumulative energy has to be accounted for within the universe. It currently is not.
Currently it is just assumed that the energy manifesting as our intellect or consciousness is fleeting (even wrongly believed to be illusory) and just disappears. But we know that energy does not work like that . . . so what does happen to it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2014, 01:40 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,281,003 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novila View Post
This represents the kind of dualism I thought perpetuated only by the Judeo-Christian religious.
Since nothing in what I wrote has anything to do with dualism I am afraid you will have to clarify what you are talking about. I am merely pointing out that things become more valuable when they are rare.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2014, 05:15 AM
 
39,070 posts, read 10,842,814 times
Reputation: 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No need for debate, Arq. The difference is that before birth there was no consciousness produced. It IS produced during life and its cumulative energy has to be accounted for within the universe. It currently is not.
And so the only answer is that it continues after death as a disembodies consciousness pretty much as it was in our body. yes I know the hypothesis, but hypothesis it is and is not validated except in the minds of those who want to believe in souls and gods. And there are alternatives to this idea that a continued floating intelligence is the only answer. A body dissipates after death, why not the mental 'energy' that needed the body to form it? And I hardly need point out that we have a singular lack of any sound evidence of the billions of continuing minds there ought to be floating about.

And no need for the precognition experiences. I have heard them before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top