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Old 01-30-2014, 04:14 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
6,015 posts, read 6,375,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Thanks for sharing this. I'll have to pick up a copy of that book. He has an impressive curriculum vitae. As an atheist, I must say I am nevertheless always intrigued by those who aren't afraid of thinking outside of the box and challenging not only religious but also scientific dogma. After all, not too long ago it was absurd to think the earth was anything but flat and everything revolved around it. The tools to discover the truth simply weren't available for millenia. Knowledge is so dynamic and fluid and ever-growing that I find it hard to be conclusory about much of anything. Except organized religion, of course. I can be very conclusory about that :P
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Old 01-31-2014, 01:04 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,283,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Is there credible evidence that consciousness survives death? Yes.
Is there? I certainly have not seen it. Much less so on this Forum. Perhaps you could enlighten us with some nice links to actual studies and research on the matter. Preferably not blog entries and opinion pieces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
On the last two points hardcore atheists who have had near-death experiences have come back and told of a beautiful world they experienced.
Totally irrelevant. This thread is about what happens AFTER death. And you are going on about experiences that occurred when the patients were NOT YET dead. Please stay on topic here. The thread is about what happens after death, not what people experience before it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I disagree. There is more than ample circumstantial, even scientific-approved evidence that consciousness survives death
So you keep saying. But perhaps PRESENTING that evidence rather than talking about its existence is a better idea?
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:17 AM
 
39,189 posts, read 10,872,385 times
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We keep having NDE experiences presented as evidence of a consciousness persisting after death, and also OOB's as proof of a soul.

'Circumstantial' is the best it is. We rationally cannot take these reported events at face value when they are not understood enough to be able to rule out purely physiologically - induced delusion.

Prayer, Voices, a 'presence', talking to the voice in your head, are all now looking like they are no more than this self -delusion. NDE's also begin to look as though there is some physiological explanation.

'Circumstantial' evidence is only even a useful indication when there is no other plausible explanation on the table. There is - and an explanation which seems to have been proven in similar cases.

I'd say that weights the credit against the circumstantial evidence.What that means is that there is less reason to credit NDE's as reflecting a real afterlife than there was even two decades ago,
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Old 01-31-2014, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,827 posts, read 19,921,769 times
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Cerebral hypoxia pretty well explains NDE's.
But , as already has been mentioned...NDE's are not a return from death so are quite beside the point
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Old 01-31-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,895,955 times
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I hope something really magical happens like my little ponys take me away via cotton candy. But, to answer you honestly, I just have no idea. If someone knows for sure, please let me know.
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Old 01-31-2014, 07:18 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,972,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Is there credible evidence that consciousness survives death? Yes.
Is there credible evidence that atheists go to eternal fiery torment? No.
Is there credible evidence that even atheists are saved? Yes.

On the last two points hardcore atheists who have had near-death experiences have come back and told of a beautiful world they experienced. They then renounce, not necessarily their atheism, but certainly their belief that there is only nothingness after death. You can read and watch thousands of accounts of atheists' testimonies on NDE websites and YouTube videos.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:42 AM
 
Location: New England
673 posts, read 857,703 times
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What happened to the soul of the chicken that I had for dinner last night, does its consciousness live on? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:10 AM
 
11,145 posts, read 8,555,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Is there credible evidence that consciousness survives death? Yes.
Is there credible evidence that atheists go to eternal fiery torment? No.
Is there credible evidence that even atheists are saved? Yes.

On the last two points hardcore atheists who have had near-death experiences have come back and told of a beautiful world they experienced. They then renounce, not necessarily their atheism, but certainly their belief that there is only nothingness after death. You can read and watch thousands of accounts of atheists' testimonies on NDE websites and YouTube videos.
You can't make the statement that atheists are "saved." Whatever happens to atheists, it's technically not salvation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoast_CA View Post
Religion = man made
Spiritualism = quite natural

Upon death the consciousness must exist in different format/plain/dimension . Proof? Logical deductions only. Material proof might not even be applicable? Again just a thought like anything else
How is "spiritualism" natural? First, you would have to define "spiritualism" and then after you do that, you'll see that all of the definitions come back to something "man made" or have no proof of being real.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:34 AM
 
Location: northwest Illinois
2,331 posts, read 2,641,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhans123 View Post
I haven't been exposed to many atheists or agnostics in my lifetime so unfortunately, I've heard primarily fundamentalist Christian viewpoints. Is the most widely accepted view among the non-religious that after death is the same as before birth--nothingness? Is it possible that one could live as another form of life after their life has passed, but simply with no memory of another life because of a brand new consciousness? In essence is it just a cycle of energy like the water cycle?
When you're dead you rot, commonly known as decomposition.
End of story, welcome to reality.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:30 AM
 
39,189 posts, read 10,872,385 times
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Lanza's book is certainly asking some serious questions about the relationship between consciousness and matter. I'm just wondering whether he has asked himself whether it would work just as well if he reversed the terminology.

Or as David Thompson (NASA Astrophysicist, reviewing the book)( says
"But his book Biocentrism is generating controversy on a different plane by arguing that our consciousness plays a central role in creating the cosmos. ‘

If we said 'But his book Biocentrism is generating controversy on a different plane by arguing that the cosmos
plays a central role in creating our consciousness. ‘

If it asking important questions about current way at looking at Life, the universe and everything, it is also valid to ask important questions about looking at it in the different way.

While I have no problem with the idea that our consciousness is all part of the Cosmos, I have serious doubts about any suggestion (Lanza may not be making that suggestion, but those who find support for afterlife and Soul beliefs seem to be) that it is our specific human consciousness that is somehow responsible for it all.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-05-2014 at 02:41 AM..
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