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Old 02-21-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,082,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth View Post
LOL you're not the only one who would be annoyed, that's not exactly what I had in mind either. Maybe we get to choose if we want to continue on eternally or not?
There's a lovely passage in the Neil Gaiman novel American Gods in which the protagonist dies and is ushered across the River Styx. There, his good deeds are placed in a scale and weighed against a feather (in other words, low barrier to entry, if you're a fundamentalist, I guess) and he's deemed worthy of eternal life. IIRC he's offered 3 choices -- heaven, which is up around a bend in a staircase through one portal; return to earthly existence through another portal, and oblivion through a third. The guy says, "I'm tired of the ways of men and of gods" and triumphantly walks into oblivion. (That guy could have been yours truly! I was cheering him on!)

Regrettably, a demigod ("culture hero" actually in the book's parlance, he reminds me of our own ptsum) brings him out of oblivion to help him with some project or other ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth View Post
Alright, more wishful thinking but here's that gut thing again......I just don't "feel" it's anything like this existence.
Well clearly what you feel or not must be so ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth View Post
I've been toying around with the idea of reincarnation as a possibility to my quandary, it's something I would have scoffed at when I was a Christian that's for sure. You know how they say, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, maybe in the next life it will be the other way around......a temporary solution to a permanent problem.
Interesting thought. I find reincarnation kind of irrelevant since if you don't recall your past life then it's pretty much the same, functionally, as no reincarnation, is it not? And the different concept of rebirth (from Buddhism) is even more irrelevant since the only thing that recognizably survives death is your karma, not your personality, which they teach is an illusion even in this life anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth View Post
That's true as far as what we actually know, it could quite possibly be the end but I just don't think so.
We can't legitimately go any further than what we actually know and can verify. You seem well aware that you are simply speculating / hoping / wishing, loosely under the guidance of your subjective emotional responses to your perception of the human condition. So I have no quarrel with you at all. Whatever works, eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth View Post
Death could be like birth, just a portal into another existence for all we know. Maybe if this life had been better for you, you would have a different outlook on living on after death in some form or fashion. One thing is for certain, we will all find out eventually and if this really is it we won't know the difference anyhow.
It is possible that if my particular theist abstraction had not been so leaky that I would not only believe in a generic afterlife but maybe even still be a fundamentalist with those specific ideas about an afterlife. I certainly understand the impulse, but once you are stripped of enough illusions there's no going back.

I've thought about it alot, though, and I rather think that by this point in my life, even if everything had gone "according to Hoyle", I would still be at least uneasy and restless within those strictures, as I'm simply too informed and curious to have totally bought that rubbish indefinitely. My 3 older brothers probably serve as case studies in possible outcomes short of outright departure: one (now deceased) remained amiably unquestioning and bovinely content; one became ever more rigid and closed off in his beliefs; and one drifted away into the "non-practicing" category but still is unwilling to self-identify as atheist, even to himself, although I can't detect that he gives any actual credence to the beliefs anymore.

Since I'm temperamentally most similar to that 3rd brother, I suspect that if I wanted to know what my life might look like in the absence of all those baroque tragedies, I probably need look no further. I'd be a closeted unbeliever, probably closeted even from myself to an extent, but far too deeply embedded in my extended family dynamic and not actively unhappy enough with my life, to feel like it was worth rocking the boat over.
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:44 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,107,861 times
Reputation: 3965
MysticPhD's written 19,427 posts that say nothing. Given that my account was just freed up after a week and a half or so of a disciplinary period, I'd thus like to add that the prior sentence is a commentary on the propositional content of his posts, not on the person making them.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:09 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,739,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
MysticPhD's written 19,427 posts that say nothing. Given that my account was just freed up after a week and a half or so of a disciplinary period, I'd thus like to add that the prior sentence is a commentary on the propositional content of his posts, not on the person making them.
Sorry to hear about your suspension. Most of us regulars have experienced it multiple times. The problem with your comment is that it has zero substance. Your opinion is noted but it carries no weight. Perhaps if you used specific examples and showed how and why they were in fact devoid of content. . . .
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:41 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,107,861 times
Reputation: 3965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Sorry to hear about your suspension. Most of us regulars have experienced it multiple times. The problem with your comment is that it has zero substance. Your opinion is noted but it carries no weight. Perhaps if you used specific examples and showed how and why they were in fact devoid of content. . . .
Yeah, well, I'm saying your posts taken as a whole have zero content. We'll never be able to reconcile this difference (I'm afraid) based on how disingenuous you've consistently been in this forum.

I'm an atheist. Speak plainly. That's all I ask. I have no reason to care about your agenda of obfuscation. My point is that said agenda speaks poorly about your cause. Your cause is in fact non-existent except for the fact that you're able to prop it up via sophistry. I'm not sure how well you're truly convincing/deceiving either yourself or the billions of others who profess to believe in a god of some sort, but you/they are all welcome to opine on this thread regarding their respective level(s) of credulity. I welcome all while realizing I'll deal with the answers of a literal few.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:31 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,739,576 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Yeah, well, I'm saying your posts taken as a whole have zero content. We'll never be able to reconcile this difference (I'm afraid)
Ah well . . . that's what I thought. Have a nice day.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:31 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,107,861 times
Reputation: 3965
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Ah well . . . that's what I thought. Have a nice day.
At the end of the day, the above is all such combative exchanges ever can reduce to, even as cosmology becomes ever more physically detailed and "religion" in general trends asymptotically towards obsolescence...I say asymptotically because it will never actually touch the "obsolescence axis" due to epistemological limitations. Repeat, never...even if quantum mechanics and general relativity can be satisfactorily reconciled; even if a multiverse is empirically demonstrable; etc...the physical theory will always (?--I don't see how it couldn't) lack in some way in terms of addressing first causes, and in that ever-slimming margin religion can fester and insidiously attack the foundations of rational thought....

Still, dismissive "have a nice days" from a vocal member of the crowd that's clinging to whatever ground he can find doesn't reflect well on one's intellectual honesty. I think we should all be agnostic in terms of the actual question of ultimate knowledge--and therefore I'd be ultimately willing to relinquish my "atheist" label. Quite easily, in fact. Would you do the same from the supposed other side of the debate, a debate that is in my mind ultimately as meaningless as our temporary illusory existence?
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:18 PM
 
3,315 posts, read 1,879,209 times
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I find the idea of reincarnation fascinating (since it was mentioned in this thread) but I'm still afraid of it. What if you get turned into a bug or something?
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
14,699 posts, read 8,483,912 times
Reputation: 29399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christinerica View Post
in that vein, i can understand. but with it comes the likes of Sara Palin, Republicans and the GOP. Could anyone imagine an eternity with that harridan?
Never mind the political party. Who would want to hang out with ANY politicians for eternity? That sure isn't my idea of a good time. I'm not keen on this eternity thing either. I don't understand how Christians, who believe their souls will survive for all eternity, are often the most resistant to dying when their time is up. They seem more afraid of dying than many atheists.

I know when I die, that's all she wrote. So I have to get everything done while I can. Maybe that's why I don't bother cleaning my house more often. Does it really matter if I got my house vacuumed an extra 10 times while I was alive? No. Does it matter if I spent more time with my little nephews and sister? It sure does.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:55 PM
 
40,056 posts, read 26,739,576 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
MysticPhD's written 19,427 posts that say nothing. Given that my account was just freed up after a week and a half or so of a disciplinary period, I'd thus like to add that the prior sentence is a commentary on the propositional content of his posts, not on the person making them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Sorry to hear about your suspension. Most of us regulars have experienced it multiple times. The problem with your comment is that it has zero substance. Your opinion is noted but it carries no weight. Perhaps if you used specific examples and showed how and why they were in fact devoid of content. . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Yeah, well, I'm saying your posts taken as a whole have zero content. We'll never be able to reconcile this difference (I'm afraid) based on how disingenuous you've consistently been in this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Ah well . . . that's what I thought. Have a nice day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
At the end of the day, the above is all such combative exchanges ever can reduce to, even as cosmology becomes ever more physically detailed and "religion" in general trends asymptotically towards obsolescence...I say asymptotically because it will never actually touch the "obsolescence axis" due to epistemological limitations. Repeat, never...even if quantum mechanics and general relativity can be satisfactorily reconciled; even if a multiverse is empirically demonstrable; etc...the physical theory will always (?--I don't see how it couldn't) lack in some way in terms of addressing first causes, and in that ever-slimming margin religion can fester and insidiously attack the foundations of rational thought....

Still, dismissive "have a nice days" from a vocal member of the crowd that's clinging to whatever ground he can find doesn't reflect well on one's intellectual honesty. I think we should all be agnostic in terms of the actual question of ultimate knowledge--and therefore I'd be ultimately willing to relinquish my "atheist" label. Quite easily, in fact. Would you do the same from the supposed other side of the debate, a debate that is in my mind ultimately as meaningless as our temporary illusory existence?
You categorically disavow and dismiss as meaningless and disingenuous anything I have presented in over 19,000+ posts . . . then you whine I am being dismissive and intellectually dishonest when I withdraw from any attempt to engage the complete lack of content or substance in your post???? Now that takes big ones!
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:02 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,961,439 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You categorically disavow and dismiss as meaningless and disingenuous anything I have presented in over 19,000+ posts . . . then you whine I am being dismissive and intellectually dishonest when I withdraw from any attempt to engage the complete lack of content or substance in your post???? Now that takes big ones!
You took the time to quote that whole conversation and then add the above comment. Kinda proves Matt's point don't you think?
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