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Old 02-07-2014, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,190 posts, read 9,077,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
I know there was a thing about being cocky which I could see. But I'd just like to put an observation from my nook which isn't the atheistic way. Am I right in noting that I see fom my perch a certain say p***** offness permeating thought? Marrying intelligence, cockiness and anger together is a pretty tough battery. What say you?
I'm not sure what a "tough battery" is so not sure what you're asking.

Some people are angry, sometimes for good reason, sometimes not so much. Many are intelligent and some are cocky. The same can be said of any group, including theists and atheists. And then of course you have to apply the normal filters to Internet forums because they are dominated by the young, who have extra hubris and inexperience on display.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:37 PM
 
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I'm not sure what a "tough battery" is so not sure what you're asking.
I'm saying the 'godless' appear to have a need to fight and battle against the opposition. I think scratch an atheist and you'll find deep-seated anger that needs to be vented in some way. The atmosphere is not one of say 'peace' in your beliefs. The theme is like ok enough already let's go for knockouts. You attack and defend, you want to win! Just my view.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:55 AM
 
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You are right. There is a deep -seated anger. I have learned to cultivate a cheeriness and even respect and sympathy for believers. But I am angry.

I am angry at the deception that is being foisted on people globally.

I am angry at the deceptive and dishonest arguments put forward by religious apologists to try to make their Myth -based suppositions sound feasible.

I am angry at the claim of churchmen to have authority over us and tell us how we should order our lives and what we should or should not have in law, science, education and society, based on these silly myths.

I am angry and we are angry and that anger smoulders in a banked down determination to let people realize what a nasty con -trick is being foisted on them. That is why we spend so much time and effort on this.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,190 posts, read 9,077,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
I'm saying the 'godless' appear to have a need to fight and battle against the opposition. I think scratch an atheist and you'll find deep-seated anger that needs to be vented in some way. The atmosphere is not one of say 'peace' in your beliefs. The theme is like ok enough already let's go for knockouts. You attack and defend, you want to win! Just my view.
Your statement assumes anger is always bad and unhealthy and unjustified or else implies that atheist anger is always those things. It also implies that atheists are angrier than anyone else.

As I said, people of all stripes put out an angry vibe. Hellfire and brimstone preachers are angry, though they get a free pass because they are supposedly preaching under the influence of god's holiness and just indignation. But what is indignation if not anger? Every time an atheist is marginalized or ostracized or judged by some sort of stereotype (not just the angry stereotype you're pushing, but also the hedonistic, lawless one), that's angry, too. So? People are angry sometimes -- as I said, sometimes for good reason, sometimes not. Anger is not an atheist emotion, it's a human one.

You Christians have "righteous anger" that allows for overturning tables and physically threatening merchants with impunity ... just consider our anger to be our version of that.

Last edited by mordant; 02-08-2014 at 06:27 AM..
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:16 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,936,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
I'm saying the 'godless' appear to have a need to fight and battle against the opposition. I think scratch an atheist and you'll find deep-seated anger that needs to be vented in some way. The atmosphere is not one of say 'peace' in your beliefs.
But here in reality, as an example it is Christians which are responsible for actual violence towards doctors performing abortions. If atheists have deep-seated anger because they ask that religion not be given special privilege, the actual physical violence Christians commit must mean they're walking around about to explode at any instant.

Painting with a broad brush like this is a pretty ugly way to try and demonize an entire group. Vague innuendo and character assassination might seem like a good approach, but don't act surprised that you provoke a reaction in people. Poking someone in the eye and then pretending they're in the wrong for swatting you away isn't exactly an honest approach towards discussion.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:26 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
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I don't think it's fair to say ALL atheists are angry and waiting eagerly to pounce on unsuspecting religious people. I'm not the least bit angry, I just know that what I had been taught since birth is nothing but lies but I can't be angry at those who taught it to me because they didn't know any better either.

It's just really sad to me that SO many people have been duped and are having the beejeebers scared out of them every time they step into a church and hear the "hellfire and brimstone" message just to keep them in line. Religion affects every facet of our lives whether we want it to or not and that's just not fair. Sadness and wanting a fair shake are not things that equate to anger, it's just wanting to set the record straight and wanting our voices to be heard.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:03 PM
 
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Sadness and wanting a fair shake are not things that equate to anger, it's just wanting to set the record straight and wanting our voices to be heard.
Well I'd think religions are the so-called 'incumbent'. They've been around for a while. I'd suggest why isn't it enough that if one wants to be 'godless' then so be it and be done with it. Keep it in your heart and to your content. Enjoy that belief then. Bask in it. Revel in it. Yet to me I see some 'uncomfortableness'. I think it takes alot of energy to get that hard shell up and keep on the constant offensive against those who you think are duped.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
211 posts, read 251,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Well I'd think religions are the so-called 'incumbent'. They've been around for a while. I'd suggest why isn't it enough that if one wants to be 'godless' then so be it and be done with it. Keep it in your heart and to your content. Enjoy that belief then. Bask in it. Revel in it. Yet to me I see some 'uncomfortableness'. I think it takes alot of energy to get that hard shell up and keep on the constant offensive against those who you think are duped.
Damn it! If you say all the smart things there's nothing left for me to say

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Old 02-10-2014, 04:20 AM
 
39,026 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Well I'd think religions are the so-called 'incumbent'. They've been around for a while. I'd suggest why isn't it enough that if one wants to be 'godless' then so be it and be done with it. Keep it in your heart and to your content. Enjoy that belief then. Bask in it. Revel in it. Yet to me I see some 'uncomfortableness'. I think it takes alot of energy to get that hard shell up and keep on the constant offensive against those who you think are duped.
It does take a lot of time and effort, but it is worth doing. Indeed Like Martin Luther, here we stand;we cannot do other.

It is of course the special pleading fallacy to claim that we are somehow discredited because of putting in a lot of energy into our work. That Christianity has put in centuries of intense and concentrated work is considered some sort of evidence for how true it is.

It is also special pleading that 'religion is incumbent'. At one time pantheons of gods were 'Incumbent'. Now monotheism has been the fashion for quite some time. Christianity itself had to start with just one small group of believers. So far, we small group of unbelievers seem to be doing quite well.

And we have one great advantage in this day and age; the evidence is on our side and faith -belief is being increasingly seen as 'not good enough'.

How YOU see it, doesn't bother us at all. How others see it needs to be corrected perhaps, should they be persuaded by your fallacious argument. For us, (supposing FSOA that it was intended to make us discomfited at the effort we were putting into not being believers) it is a non -argument, for the reasons I gave. They are considered perfectly good and fine reasons to approve and praise Christianity
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:50 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,278,109 times
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Originally Posted by athithi View Post
If you say all the smart things there's nothing left for me to say
Then lucky for you that what the user said was not all that smart... here is why...

Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Well I'd think religions are the so-called 'incumbent'. They've been around for a while. I'd suggest why isn't it enough that if one wants to be 'godless' then so be it and be done with it.
.... because we simply are not let "be done with it". Religion creeps its insidious corrupting tendrils into our halls of power, education and science. It throws it's weight around and makes it felt in all levels of all walks of life. Simply being godless but remaining quite about it is not an option for people like myself.

And on top of that a second equally valid answer to your question is "Why should we?". We have every right to espouse vocally our world view as any other person has. Perhaps even more of a right given our world view does not require us to espouse lies or unsubstantiated fantasy or to condemn others to hell or other unpleasant after lives.

Nay it is not just our right to stand up and be heard, it is incumbent upon us simply as humans to stand up against charlatans, liars, fraudsters and purveyors of woo.
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