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Old 02-17-2014, 01:22 PM
 
39,066 posts, read 10,842,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Oh, I think we would have eventually gone to war against Germany. It may have taken a few extra months, but the American people were already riled with war frenzy. The vote in congress would have been a lot closer than it was for the declaration of war against Japan, but I'm almost certain we would have gotten there eventually - even if it happened because of a major incident at sea involving our ships and the German U-boats.

(Hopefully the mods won't mind if we kind of jump back and forth between religion and history - we're still on point for the most part).
Thanks, and apologies to the Mods for the digression and to Hiker for my (deleted) earlier post, before I decided he looked right.

Back on topic.
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,113,999 times
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Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
So, you think it should be reserved to Americans to call Bush an idiot?
Yes.

I don't mind if a misguided American makes a derogatory comment about an American president but I think it is VERY poor manners for a foreigner to do it, just like it would be very poor manners for me to make a derogatory comment about a foreign leader.
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I agree.

I just thought it was in very poor taste for a British person to call our beloved former president George Bush an idiot, so I had to respond in kind.
Why, he is an idiot.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia
485 posts, read 731,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Yes.

I don't mind if a misguided American makes a derogatory comment about an American president but I think it is VERY poor manners for a foreigner to do it, just like it would be very poor manners for me to make a derogatory comment about a foreign leader.
There's a difference between derogatory comments and "tasteful" criticism. I take it that you mean referring to these figures of authority with terms such as "idiot" or "bigot" is not acceptable, especially from a foreign perspective. But I could say "Putin is ineffectively trying to solve his country's problems, and seemingly worsening the present conditions. His ego his too large and he is too controlling." The statement I made is likely offensive, but I could make a reasonable argument for my case without attacking him via verbal abuse.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,113,999 times
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Originally Posted by mhans123 View Post
I take it that you mean referring to these figures of authority with terms such as "idiot" or "bigot" is not acceptable, especially from a foreign perspective.
Yes, that is exactly right.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:27 PM
 
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I take your point and, while I would prefer to take the Mods' word for what I can and cannot say rather than yours, I do see the need to be polite. I wouldn't apply the term 'Idiot' even to Reagan, who after all ended the cold war (1)

I could have said George Dubbyha Bush was an incompetent buffoon who should never have been elected but for his religious credentials getting him elected by the way some ticket -tabs went, and whose prayer - driven policies were thoroughly alarming. But 'Idiot' is easier to type.

(1) by agreeing to talk to Gorbachov, not because of anything he did himself...since we have veered off topic, let's make a meal of it before we all get banned And that was thanks to the Taliban (as they are called now) kicking the Russians out.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:06 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,525 posts, read 2,448,641 times
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Originally Posted by mhans123 View Post
I find it very annoying and odd when people say "God wants this" or "Does God want us to do this?" My initial reaction is to tell them that they could not possibly believe him to be all-powerful and read his mind at the same time. Maybe it's just me....
No it's not just you, I find it very annoying also. My entire family is religious which is bad enough but I have a cousin who thinks that every little thing can be attributed to "god", even the gray hairs on her head. When she sends texts, her signature is "I love Jesus!!" and that just tears my nerves up!
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,084,119 times
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Originally Posted by Northsouth View Post
No it's not just you, I find it very annoying also. My entire family is religious which is bad enough but I have a cousin who thinks that every little thing can be attributed to "god", even the gray hairs on her head. When she sends texts, her signature is "I love Jesus!!" and that just tears my nerves up!
Eh, gotta let that go, life is too short for that much stress. Much of what passes for human interaction is cringe-inducing, not just religion, and sometimes we are unwittingly the source of that feeling in others like fingernails on a chalkboard, too.

I gotta ask about her gray hairs though, does she connect that with "a hoary head is a crown of glory" or some such? Because in all honesty to an extent, even I credit some of my grey hairs, if not to god, certainly to my past involvement with religion. And not in a good way.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:19 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
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Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Eh, gotta let that go, life is too short for that much stress. Much of what passes for human interaction is cringe-inducing, not just religion, and sometimes we are unwittingly the source of that feeling in others like fingernails on a chalkboard, too.

I gotta ask about her gray hairs though, does she connect that with "a hoary head is a crown of glory" or some such? Because in all honesty to an extent, even I credit some of my grey hairs, if not to god, certainly to my past involvement with religion. And not in a good way.
Yeah I know I need to find some kind of humor in it if I'm going to continue to have a relationship with her. Haha it's more like she believes god gave her the gray hair so she's not going to do anything about it like color it because god gave it to her. Moronic. I think I could attribute my gray hair to my past involvement with religion too which is a much more reasonable way of thinking. Instead of "goddunnit" it's more "religion dunnit" but that's what haircolor is for imo.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,084,119 times
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Originally Posted by Northsouth View Post
Yeah I know I need to find some kind of humor in it if I'm going to continue to have a relationship with her. Haha it's more like she believes god gave her the gray hair so she's not going to do anything about it like color it because god gave it to her. Moronic. I think I could attribute my gray hair to my past involvement with religion too which is a much more reasonable way of thinking. Instead of "goddunnit" it's more "religion dunnit" but that's what haircolor is for imo.
Yes, religious prohibitions against makeup are just turning a rational argument for balance into a prohibition, and a ham-fisted and tone-deaf prohibition at that. Religion is great at that. (And yes, folks, I know that this particular prohibition is a minority position even in fundamentalism; that is not my point).

There's a local establishment in my town that I frequent sometimes as I have a weakness for their breakfast menu items and the quirky, attractive vibe of the place. One Saturday I stopped by only to find a sign, "closed for Sabbath". I assumed the owners were Jewish, but later I figured out that they are members of a religious commune that borrows from both Judaism and Christianity, is very isolationist, etc., which explains the matronly lady at the counter who looks for all the world like someone out of the 1920s with her ankle-length dress, severe gray 'do and facial expression, and old fashioned round spectacles. Here are people who have worship services twice a day every day, appear to be against both makeup and shaving, home school their children and put them to work as waiters of tables ... because they believe the Bible wants them to both live like the "primitive" early church, protect their young from the evils of the world, AND observe Jewish feast days and other customs. Sort of like most Christians might be if Paul had never written his letters or they never became part of the New Testament.

Mind you I have no issue with them, let them live as they wish, even if it's not my bag. It's just that ... if this isn't deliberate repression of one's self-awareness to avoid the realities of life, I don't know what is. And in its unusualness and extremity (members sell all that they own and have only common property, etc) it is a good metaphor for what religion, at a lower amplitude, does to all comers.
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