U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-14-2014, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Adelaide,SA,Australia
28 posts, read 40,274 times
Reputation: 18

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDragon View Post
Because the universe works without resorting to an unobservable/unproveable supernatural agent. There's nothing for god to do.
Something can not come from nothing.

Infinite regression is fallacious.

Therefore, before time began there was eternity.

Isaiah 57:15 -
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabitetheternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-14-2014, 12:47 AM
 
181 posts, read 181,618 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTaTHEIST View Post
How do you "know" this god doesn't want to proven? It seems far to convenient that most gods are without proofs, convenient to the point of the concept being anthropogenically designed that way.
I don't know.

I go by faith.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2014, 01:50 AM
 
354 posts, read 246,030 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteakGuy View Post
I don't know.

I go by faith.
So by faith you just assume this god doesn't want to be proven? You have no divine revelation, no holy books, nothing that tells you this? Or maybe you just assume it does not want to be proven because it hasn't been? This is all very strange.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2014, 02:00 AM
 
354 posts, read 246,030 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquine View Post
Something can not come from nothing.

Infinite regression is fallacious.

Therefore, before time began there was eternity.

Isaiah 57:15 -
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabitetheternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Don't most Christians believe in creation ex nihilo? And isn't saying "there was eternity" just another way of saying something was infinite?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2014, 04:06 AM
 
39,206 posts, read 10,887,543 times
Reputation: 5096
The answer would be 'God didn't create the universe out of nothing. He was there and always has been.'

In which case we would say that the universe came out of what was there already- whatever it was. But there is no good reason to suppose that it was anything that the religious would consider 'God'.

Essentially we don't know and nobody knows. We atheists admit that we don't know. Theists believe on Faith that they do. What we do know (to a high degree of confidence) is that religions are man - made and their Holy Books and personal gods are bunkum. That is quite sufficient a rationale for atheism or, at least, irreligion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2014, 04:17 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,700,916 times
Reputation: 4300
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
God as the reason for our reality is also a preference.
Preference is subjective. Statements about reality are a different thing. If you state there is a god you have to back up that statement. You have never done so. Even a little.

Declaring there is no god is a statement too but a pointless one. There is no basis for claiming there is one and that is all we are required to point out in the face of people protestylising god thought in the atheist sub forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There IS something that actually exists (reality) that needs to be accounted FOR
Agreed. But you do not account for it. You simply relabel the entirity "god" and act like the new label is in itself an explanation. That is nonsense semantic and linguistic tomfoolery which you come in here selling as deep thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
To claim EITHER one as default is to make an unsubstantiated positive claim.
Then stop doing it because that very much IS the unsubstantiated positive claim you come into forum after forum - thread after thread - making at us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2014, 04:20 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,700,916 times
Reputation: 4300
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But to me that suggests that there IS some kind of field phenomenon that our brain is supposed to sense
You have tried this nonsense before and were called on it quite effectively. You are attempting to claim that because the brain acts weirdly when you stimulate it weirdly - that this means the brain is somehow meant to detect something of that weird nature.

Complete tripe.

It is akin to saying that because if you do not drive a car correctly you crash it - that therefore cars were designed to be crashed.

This "point" from you does little more than highlight just how desperate you can get to manufacture evidence where none exists.

You are trying to sell the idea that "because the brain can detect fields - therefore god must exist because I want god to be fields". Even if we grant the brain can detect fields that does not allow you to simply make up a non existent field (god) and declare it exists. Just because instrument X detects things in group Y - that does not mean I can declare group Y consists of whatever the hell I want it to consist of.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2014, 04:27 AM
 
39,206 posts, read 10,887,543 times
Reputation: 5096
And consistently denying, decrying (as 'beliefs) or just ignoring the proven (as much as any rational person should need) existence of a reality that does not need a god to operate, but does very well through physical reactions.

That essentially is the weak point in Mystic's argument, which would be false enough in just saying that the god -argument is just as valid as the non - god argument, but apparently it is supposed that there is a better case for "God". I suppose if you believe it to start off with - a very un-rational place to start an argument - that would make sense, but being rational (or Mystic would say not having experienced what he has), it doesn't make sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Oh come on....this reasoning is so faulty even an 'uneducated ignorant ' person like me can see it.
There are so many chemicals and processes within one's own body that mental aberrations can occur with no outside influence or artificial stimuli necessary.
IOW...you can 'do it' to yourself. Pretty basic idea in the field of psychiatry.
The reason you prefer it your way is so that you can claim you've progressed beyond a state of understanding we peons have not reached.
Another one...should we have a pollthread on 'How many here have sussed Mystic out?' But that would be sarcasm, prohibited by the ToS.

P.s Gosh. It's not every day you find a response to a post that came later. Creepy

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-14-2014 at 05:27 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2014, 05:09 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,846 posts, read 3,359,734 times
Reputation: 4056
Why does it seem like every thread I click on in the Atheist and Agnostic forum, I see Christians and generic theists tossing around Bible verses and proselytizing as if this were the Religion and Spirituality forum?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2014, 05:11 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,837 posts, read 19,932,533 times
Reputation: 23280
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post

What this evidence provides is support for those of us who alter our brain state and detect the presence of God . . . WITHOUT any artificial stimuli. When we alter our brain state in meditation or truly devout prayer . . . we tune our consciousness so that it is somehow resonant with the consciousness field of God. Hence we sense God . . . and there is NO artificial stimuli present to account for it.
Oh come on....this reasoning is so faulty even an 'uneducated ignorant ' person like me can see it.
There are so many chemicals and processes within one's own body that mental aberrations can occur with no outside influence or artificial stimuli necessary.
IOW...you can 'do it' to yourself. Pretty basic idea in the field of psychiatry.
The reason you prefer it your way is so that you can claim you've progressed beyond a state of understanding we peons have not reached.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top