U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-09-2014, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Mill Valley, California
275 posts, read 393,508 times
Reputation: 243

Advertisements

Rather than posting his own thread, a theist poster chose to rudely attempt to hijack an existing one with an unrelated post. So I thought I'd help him out by starting the thread he was too spineless to start himself. His point (paraphrased) was:

Quote:
Since no one can prove or disprove God exists, atheists are wrong to assert their disbelief as truth.
The response is painfully simple. While his point was technically true, it doesn't mean atheism doesn't remain a superior assertion over any theistic one.
[b]
Since no one can know the unknowable, theism remains entirely incoherent, by definition.

So, until a theist exists who can demonstrate God, rather than simply making excuses why this can't be accomplished, ANY other assertion -- including the atheist one -- remains decidedly more plausible.

Thoughts? Disagreements?

Last edited by june 7th; 03-09-2014 at 03:27 PM.. Reason: Red is reserved for mod cuts within posts. Using any other color is okay. Thanks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-09-2014, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,975 posts, read 18,569,815 times
Reputation: 18674
Isn't this revisiting the atheist/agnostic distinctions? We have staged this debate several times and there is such a thread on the front page at this moment.

I'm Agnostic ... not an Atheist
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 01:27 PM
 
39,083 posts, read 10,842,814 times
Reputation: 5087
I am actually confident that God does not exist and, if there were not so many believers ready to jump on me, I would have to admit there is a fair bit of bias in there.

I would however, say that my views are reasonable and justified, bearing in mind that 'God' can mean a lot of things.

let me see..

(1) god... a cosmic mind controlling, quite likely originating, the universe, and having a degree of control amounting to intelligence (the God of Einstein) or what I call 'Sortagod. A god quite unlike humans and having no interest in religions or indeed sorting out people for hell or heaven.
Degree of possibility...50% really. Degree of probability (and that's a big difference of view). 5% Really.

Because the former is based on what could possibly exist and the other on what I would credit as being likely. On this basis Disbelief is logically mandatory.

(2) "God"...a being somewhat like us in thought and ideas. Very likely our creator and probably of everything. Contacts us mentally but doesn't (often) intervene in human affairs. Deist - god. Having no particular support for any particular religion of resemblance to any of the personal gods...but perhaps the 'God' described in the parable of the elephant, in that everyone perceives it differently.

And 'It' is correct, though one easily slips into the 'He' habit.

Possibility...30% ...probability, 1.5 % based on the sheer lack of evidence for any such thing and probability of natural causes for all that stuff.

(3) God..The god (or gods) of various religions and nearly always the God of Christianity when the term in used on the boards. Having thoughts and intents familiar to our own and having gender (in some way I can't fathom) and definitely our creator and having a hands -on involvement in our daily lives - often having one or more assistant or gofor in accomplishing its (read 'His') wishes. Accessible mentally and emotionally (often the same thing) definite likes and dislikes and having a vote or veto on all our afterlife options. Described pretty much correctly in Holy Books.

Possibility...0.5%...probability..about the same, I suppose.

N.B I am not assigning empirical, let alone scientific probabilities, but am giving my credibility - percentages and indicating why.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-09-2014 at 01:37 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Mill Valley, California
275 posts, read 393,508 times
Reputation: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Isn't this revisiting the atheist/agnostic distinctions? We have staged this debate several times and there is such a thread on the front page at this moment.
No, its revisiting (perhaps just as tired a topic) the "why theism is incoherent" idea -- making both atheism and agnosticism and even a belief in, say, fruit bats as the magical creator of everything, ALL superior assertions to the generic mystical theistic belief that asserts something unknowable is even worth considering, let alone calling it "God"....
Moderator cut: delete...But I have little doubt that the I'm "Agnostic...not an Atheist" thread also likely touches upon this idea as well. That thread is so large now, there are likely few topics not addressed in there somewhere ).

Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-09-2014 at 04:20 PM.. Reason: talking about another poster is considered "chatroom type posts" and are not allower
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 04:56 PM
 
278 posts, read 255,475 times
Reputation: 174
Because the universe works without resorting to an unobservable/unproveable supernatural agent. There's nothing for god to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 05:30 PM
 
Location: northwest Illinois
2,331 posts, read 2,639,535 times
Reputation: 2433
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopOnPop View Post
Rather than posting his own thread, a theist poster chose to rudely attempt to hijack an existing one with an unrelated post. So I thought I'd help him out by starting the thread he was too spineless to start himself. His point (paraphrased) was:

The response is painfully simple. While his point was technically true, it doesn't mean atheism doesn't remain a superior assertion over any theistic one.
[b]
Since no one can know the unknowable, theism remains entirely incoherent, by definition.

So, until a theist exists who can demonstrate God, rather than simply making excuses why this can't be accomplished, ANY other assertion -- including the atheist one -- remains decidedly more plausible.

Thoughts? Disagreements?
Pop, If I'm not mistaken this seems to bother you, more than it does us? Let's agree you're comfortable believing in fictional books and YOUR god right? I'm comfortable in believing in MYSELF, instead of mythical beings who have been dead for centuries and have nothing to do with me. I was dead for a tad over two minutes, years ago due to a accident. Trust me, not a damn thing is waiting for you on the other side.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2014, 12:52 AM
 
40,066 posts, read 26,739,576 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopOnPop View Post
No, its revisiting (perhaps just as tired a topic) the "why theism is incoherent" idea -- making both atheism and agnosticism and even a belief in, say, fruit bats as the magical creator of everything, ALL superior assertions to the generic mystical theistic belief that asserts something unknowable is even worth considering, let alone calling it "God"....
And yet you have no problem considering reality worth considering and calling it Nature . . . despite the fact we haven't the vaguest idea what it is or why it is . . . and that is likely to remain unknowable. Why the double standard?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2014, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Mill Valley, California
275 posts, read 393,508 times
Reputation: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest61021 View Post
Pop, If I'm not mistaken this seems to bother you, more than it does us? Let's agree you're comfortable believing in fictional books and YOUR god right? I'm comfortable in believing in MYSELF, instead of mythical beings who have been dead for centuries and have nothing to do with me. I was dead for a tad over two minutes, years ago due to a accident. Trust me, not a damn thing is waiting for you on the other side.
Huh? Did I just step through a looking glass? You got no argument from me! I don't have any mythical books, beings, frogs, bacteria or even really small rocks in my life. I'm here for the usual reasons as everyone else.
What did I say that gave of the vibe that I am theist?

The idea behind this thread is Mystics, not mine -- I merely opened it.

(....I suddenly feel like I have been walking around all day with my fly open....)

Last edited by HopOnPop; 03-10-2014 at 01:06 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2014, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Mill Valley, California
275 posts, read 393,508 times
Reputation: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
And yet you have no problem considering reality worth considering and calling it Nature . . . despite the fact we haven't the vaguest idea what it is or why it is . . . and that is likely to remain unknowable. Why the double standard?
I have no idea what "considering reality worth considering" means, so I can't really answer your question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2014, 01:08 AM
 
Location: northwest Illinois
2,331 posts, read 2,639,535 times
Reputation: 2433
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopOnPop View Post
Huh? Did I just step through a looking glass? You got no argument from me! I don't have any mythical books, beings, frogs, bacteria or even really small rocks in my life. I'm here for the usual reasons as everyone else.
What did I say that gave of the vibe that I am theist?

(....I suddenly feel like I have been walking around all day with my fly open....)
I guess your opening statement is what gave me that impression, sorry if I mistook you? "Why atheists can be confident that God doesn't exist..."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top