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Old 04-25-2015, 05:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Have you actually run across one? I have only encountered one who claimed to be a gnostic atheist, and that was because he had his own pretty out-there, unevidenced, conspiracy theory that he claimed invalidated the entire concept of "gods".

The longer I poke around, the more I wonder if the gnostic atheist is a similar phenomenon to Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster...

-NoCapo
Whether they know it or not, those who do not believe in a god are atheist. Whether they know it or not, those atheists who say 'there is no God' are talking agnostic -based disbelief. For anyone to get annoyed by atheists who claim to 'know' there is no god is to get annoyed about nothing, assuming they are not simply annoyed about the god -disbelief.
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Old 04-25-2015, 06:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Whether they know it or not, those who do not believe in a god are atheist. Whether they know it or not, those atheists who say 'there is no God' are talking agnostic -based disbelief. For anyone to get annoyed by atheists who claim to 'know' there is no god is to get annoyed about nothing, assuming they are not simply annoyed about the god -disbelief.
Well, I believe everyone is an agnostic, but it does annoy me when someone "knows" that God exists, and that he/she/it wants me to do or not do something specific, and if I don't stop arguing and do what they say something bad will happen. In the same sense, I suppose if an atheist is making the same kind of argument based on supposed "knowledge", I would be irritated with that as well. I just have some sort of allergy to unfounded claims, particularly if I am expected to obey them unquestioningly...

I just have not run into that sort of atheistic argumentation. Ever. I suppose they are out there, but the amount of effort spent condemning and "countering" these gnostic atheists is alternately humorous and frustrating, seeing as they all appear to be hanging out with Elvis and the grey aliens at the 7-11! I get it when some theists do this, as they have some very specific ideological axes to grind, but when people who claim to be motivated purely by reason and evidence jump on the bandwagon, it makes me wonder...

-NoCapo
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Old 04-25-2015, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
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Irreligious atheist. I don't believe in any religion. My philosophical positions describe me more. Atheist describes my position on god, but materialist and secular humanist would describe my worldview.
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Old 04-25-2015, 06:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Well, I believe everyone is an agnostic, but it does annoy me when someone "knows" that God exists, and that he/she/it wants me to do or not do something specific, and if I don't stop arguing and do what they say something bad will happen. In the same sense, I suppose if an atheist is making the same kind of argument based on supposed "knowledge", I would be irritated with that as well. I just have some sort of allergy to unfounded claims, particularly if I am expected to obey them unquestioningly...

I just have not run into that sort of atheistic argumentation. Ever. I suppose they are out there, but the amount of effort spent condemning and "countering" these gnostic atheists is alternately humorous and frustrating, seeing as they all appear to be hanging out with Elvis and the grey aliens at the 7-11! I get it when some theists do this, as they have some very specific ideological axes to grind, but when people who claim to be motivated purely by reason and evidence jump on the bandwagon, it makes me wonder...

-NoCapo
In my experience all atheists (including myself) who say 'There is no God' mean 'I do not believe in any god -claim and I am sure the god of the bible does not exist'. The accusation of claiming to 'Know' is a grubby theist-apologist ploy for trying to make atheism look irrational and illogical.
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Old 04-25-2015, 06:32 PM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,250,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
In my experience all atheists (including myself) who say 'There is no God' mean 'I do not believe in any god -claim and I am sure the god of the bible does not exist'. The accusation of claiming to 'Know' is a grubby theist-apologist ploy for trying to make atheism look irrational and illogical.
That is certainly my experience, but maybe the elusive gnostic atheist is orbiting out with Russel's teapot. We haven't looked everywhere, right?

-NoCapo
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Old 04-25-2015, 06:49 PM
 
39,112 posts, read 10,849,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
That is certainly my experience, but maybe the elusive gnostic atheist is orbiting out with Russel's teapot. We haven't looked everywhere, right?

-NoCapo
We indeed haven't looked everywhere in the universe but like Russell's teapot, there are some things I will say I am sure don't exist and anyone who bleats that I can't be 100% sure has sacrificed their entire cache of credibility for a cheap technical score -point.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,085,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
All religions have in common some belief in or appeal to, the supernatural. Atheists have NO BELIEF in the supernatural.
No, you're conflating the supernatural with god. "All religions have in common some belief in or appeal to the supernatural" is a fair statement of fact, or close enough (I would prefer the world "unseen" to "supernatural" as it better covers a handful of edge cases). But atheism is lack of belief in gods, not of all the supernatural.

It is common, even typical, to disbelieve in the supernatural or other anti-skeptical thought constructs for the same reasons one disbelieves in deities. But it is entirely possible to believe in the unseen or supernatural while disbelieving in deities.

My stepson is a case in point that I've mentioned many times here. He's as atheistic as they come, but gives significant credence to the notion of ghosts and spirits and therefore of a sort of non-theistic, naturalistic afterlife. I think it's just an artifact of how he handles his mortality and renders it manageable / comprehensible to himself. It probably helps him that "ghost hunters" use quasi-scientific instruments to "measure" ghosts. It allows him to classify ghosts as potentially something we just don't know how to clearly measure or detect yet, but will in the future. Or something like that. Despite this I have zero problem considering him an "athiest's athiest". He really gives no credence to deities. At all. And yet ... his idea of fun is to go on an actual ghost hunt. [shrug] I would say that my stepson believes, not even in the supernatural, but in the unseen. For him it is not god of the gaps, but just a willingness to speculate more than I about some things that, while part of the natural world, might as yet be unseen / undetected / not understood.

Besides ... his training is in philosophy and this kind of thing permits him a way to escape rigorous (over)thought once in awhile. I almost think his need to deconstruct everything into a postmodern miasma of useless factoids needs an escape valve.
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Old 04-26-2015, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,532 posts, read 2,498,341 times
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As an agnostic, I don't think about organized religious belief in ant way whatsoever, at least not in a personal sense. I don't even entertain the notion of defining myself on the spectrum of theological belief since doing so would require the ability to ascertain information which lies beyond my sensory perception.

I do have a scholastic interest in religion; studying how various religious beliefs intersect with sociology, politics, psychology, sexuality, etc. Beyond that, my only interest in religion is in fighting against its intrusion into the public sphere.
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Old 04-26-2015, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Brussels
505 posts, read 460,479 times
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I was raised as a Catholic, in a country with a long history of Catholicism, and then I grow up out of it into atheism. At the beginning, I would say I was a Catholic Atheist, meaning that I was an atheist "against" the God/religion that I knew the most, Catholicism.

After that, I define myself as just not-religious. Religion has just nothing to do with my life, not Catholicism or any other. Other than celebrating Christmas and some other Christian festivities.

I know that lots of Jews are Jewish Atheist, in the sense that they are non-believers but they maintain lots of religious/ethnic Jewish traditions and festivities.
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Canada
135 posts, read 104,083 times
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Non-religious. I just don't see why I should be religious in any way. If fills no role in my life that I could not find somewhere else.

I would be surprised if almost all of the replies were anything other than non-religious. Atheists who visit online forums about atheism are probably even more against the idea of a belief in gods then the average atheist. Given that religion is so closely linked to belief in gods for most cases it would feel hypocritical. Even if the religious practices didn't involve belief in a god.
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